Comments on MLS Rumors - For the time between the games: INVESTIGATION: Seeds of Hooliganism in Toronto?

I guess I just really don't fully understand the m...

2008-05-08T13:18:00.000-04:00

I guess I just really don't fully understand the mentality of the Americans posting here. Can someone clarify how MLS is in any way different than MLB? Or the NHL? What is the issue with having a Canadian team, especially one that garners additional interest in the league at a major international city? Why would you fight to give a city like St Louis a team with a population of 300k but not one with a population of 5million+ ? Those truly interested in seeing the MLS grow would see Toronto as the tip of the sword in garnering additional fans and exposure.

I understand that many Canadian fans harbor a sense of european identity and a lot of that can be attributed to our lack of Canadian identity internationally and internally (We simply do not have an equivelant to American Pride), but what exactly is the problem with us taking pride in our heritage and working to help emulate our peers abroad?

The vast majority of you, if given a chance, would have a fantastic time at a TFC game and in no way would feel threatened or scared. There are ample places to eat and drink (and urinate), and while it desperately needs additional ATMs, the entire layout is quick and easy.

Please get off your high horses; we're not stabbing each other, or becoming a detrement to the league in any way. The inclusion of additional Canadian teams will only strengthen the league as a whole and you could learn just as much from us and we could from you.

I'm Toronto season ticket holder. First, I've seen...

2008-05-08T11:08:00.000-04:00

I'm Toronto season ticket holder. First, I've seen games MLS games in New York and Chicago and games and various pro levels in England and Italy. I think it's good to worry about hooliganism in order to recognize the early signs of crowd violence. I have to say the TFC fans currently don't act anything like hooligans I've seen. Potential hooligans? Who knows? But can we please encourage the enthusiasm for as long as we can? I agree with comments on here that fan support throughout the MLS is somewhat tenuous and we need to build the core support throughout the league.

Second, some comments turned towards the question of having a Canadian team in an American league. I have to admit that as a Canadian this bugged me from the day TFC won the expansion franchise. I would love for Canada to have a fully professional league (we did have a semi-pro league in different forms for years) to produce teams to go head-to-head with MLS and other teams. More kids play soccer than hockey in Canada. We have 33 million people and much smaller countries (Denmark, Sweden, Scotland etc) support pro leagues. The reality though is that truly pro soccer is just starting out in Canada. FIFA recognized this when they approved expansion in Toronto. Perhaps one day soon teams in Montreal and Vancouver will be joined by teams in 8-10 other Canadian cities and we form a thriving Canadian league. In the mean time, the MLS is the best option.

Why should MLS support a team in Toronto? Because greater Toronto is the fifth largest city in North America. Because the USSF and the CSA have similar challenges: a limited number of markets that will support and develop players. Right now the North American league model of the MLS and USL helps both countries. Because all those beer-swilling TFC supporters are giving the money that will develop Edu and Wynne and future US stars just as the Dynamo builds DeRo's career, etc.

I'm a TFC season ticket holder and member of the b...

2008-05-07T21:16:00.000-04:00

I'm a TFC season ticket holder and member of the biggest supporters' group-Red Patch Boys. Yes, I was at Columbus, and due to the fact there were 2400 of us and no toilets, we used common sense, and used a chainlink fence away from the party to avoid any offence. There was no wedding going on by the way.

TFC supporters are genereally passionate and knowledgable about football, but as with any crowd (hockey, baseball, NFL) a few can't hold their booze and the occasional incident occurs (yes there were sporadic incidents in Columbus). The idiot that ran onto the field last week vs the NY Fizzy drinks should be banned from BMO Field for life as should anyone throwing beer, coins, plastic bottles, flares onto the field.

Away fans are always made welcome at our tailgates- there has never been any trouble. Last year we hosted 60 Revs fans and had a great party with them and fostered friendships.
Anyway, rant over...let's all get along, people. Hopefully some of you will make it up to TO to experience the matchday experience at BMO Field.
Cheers!

Well, looks like Chinvas has us beat. Time for you...

2008-05-06T20:52:00.000-04:00

Well, looks like Chinvas has us beat. Time for you guys to go put out the fires with your tears down there I guess eh..

"Who cares what the players say? They're too polit...

2008-05-06T15:40:00.000-04:00

"Who cares what the players say? They're too polite to point out that you Canucks regard TFC games as a forum for your aggressive expressions of nationalism and your Euro wannabeism. Do you see Rev or DC fans waving American flags at games? Go play Saskatoon and see how pumped you guys are. And if you are, fine. You'll be a perfect cornerstone for a Canadian league."

Are you fuckin' retarded? I always see Americans waving their american flags when they play against TFC. Not only that, but they also chant "USA, USA, USA" as well. You inbreed fucks need a nice cup of STFU.

Who cares what the players say? They're too polit...

2008-05-06T13:47:00.000-04:00

Who cares what the players say? They're too polite to point out that you Canucks regard TFC games as a forum for your aggressive expressions of nationalism and your Euro wannabeism. Do you see Rev or DC fans waving American flags at games? Go play Saskatoon and see how pumped you guys are. And if you are, fine. You'll be a perfect cornerstone for a Canadian league.

Attention kevin, brian, and that twit fuk a canuck...

2008-05-06T12:35:00.000-04:00

Attention kevin, brian, and that twit fuk a canuck....Just read what EVERY MLS player says when asked who the best fans are and the toughest place to play away....EVERYONE says TFC! Sure there's a few idiots everywhere, but there's more fights at a single Yankees game than in a whole TFC season.

I'm tired of people framing the debate in a way th...

2008-05-06T07:57:00.000-04:00

I'm tired of people framing the debate in a way that dismisses those opposed to Canadian teams as racist. Please. What? We don't share your deracinating ideas so now we're racist?

VD, I agree, Philly will be an awesome expansion. ...

2008-05-05T21:31:00.000-04:00

VD, I agree, Philly will be an awesome expansion. They prove they are great fans no matter what the sport.

Having been a -=GASP!!=- Canadian at a few Eagles games, they were awesome to me and are top class.. as long as yer not the opposing team lol.

I hear Portland is it? has some really good fans too.

Its really funny most of you people are attacking ...

2008-05-05T21:29:00.000-04:00

Its really funny most of you people are attacking us in Toronto calling up racist etc, when 90% of your posts involve direct or indirect attacks on a country.

Its amazing how fast it has to become an us vs them thing.

And taking away from US cities? Man, fill yer fucking stadiums 1st. Prove you can make that bold/stupid of a statement. MLS is proving football is an uphill fight in most of the US. Past 4 cities up here, its the same. (Edmonton. Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal).

All I hear is DC fans, if you can only compare 1 cities fans vs a sophomore francise, I am sorry, thats just sad.

Love how we are all white drinking middle class people.. when I think 75% of my section isnt.. and not that Toronto has the largest Italian community outside of Italy.. cause Italy isnt known for liking soccer or anything...

Jesus man, you so few just fuel the fire and make so many look like jackasses... the exact same thing happening here.

Anyways, enjoy your anti-Canadian jabber, and complaining we made it in the league, cause it will be on deaf ears.. weère here to stay.

It may be in another country, but Toronto was good...

2008-05-05T19:06:00.000-04:00

It may be in another country, but Toronto was good for the league in terms of the market size and overall exposure. Canada has nothing to do with it, even the ratings show the rest of the country could care less about the MLS. And as far as multiculturalism, 80% of the crowd is caucasian male so that has little relevance either.

To me, what does not make sense is having teams in Columbus or Kansas City, San Jose or possibly St Louis. Small markets or west coast cities have nothing to offer to the future of MLS. Watching MLS for years now, The heart of the league is in big markets on the east coast and the I think addition of Philadelphia was the best move they made this year. I think rather than looking at borders, we should be looking at strong markets.

You have to appreciate vd's honesty. But does tha...

2008-05-05T18:46:00.000-04:00

You have to appreciate vd's honesty. But does that sort of Torontonian thinking serve the rest of Canada? I sometimes get the feeling that Toronto considers itself Canada only when it's convenient.

Hang on a second. Toronto's fans could be 20,250 ...

2008-05-05T18:43:00.000-04:00

Hang on a second. Toronto's fans could be 20,250 Saint Joans of Arc. But nothing can change the fact that Toronto is another country. Our country, the United States of America, is huge. We shouldn't look elswhere for growth MLS should patiently grow within the United States. The binational model is an aberration. The few examples of it can not be applied to the United States. God bless you, Toronto fans. But while you guys boast of being such a model, an American city goes without. And now they're shoving Vancouver and Montreal down our throats. Fifa wants to hear from American fans, does it? Oh, it will.

Being from Toronto, I couldn't care less about mul...

2008-05-05T18:06:00.000-04:00

Being from Toronto, I couldn't care less about multiculturalism or the rest of canada, it does not interest me. All I care about is seeing high quality MLS soccer in this city with the best possible players.

Toronto can learn a lot from other MLS franchises and vice versa. The league is what it is and bashing franchises won't make it grow. It has the potential to be a great league

it's really sad to read all bickering back and for...

2008-05-05T17:56:00.000-04:00

it's really sad to read all bickering back and forward. instead of reading the reaction of fans around the league, you see signs of jealosy and complete ignorance.
I am an American and I'm shocked by some comments regarding TFC. They are to be applauded and used as an example for the rest of the league.
Those "few bad apples" will be taken care off, the rest in Toronto is just perfect and we should follow through.
I hope some of these coments are pure TFC rivals expressing their hate.
Otherwise we need a facelift...

Few things bore me as much as Canadian claims of m...

2008-05-05T17:35:00.000-04:00

Few things bore me as much as Canadian claims of multiculturalism. The fact is that the foreign-born population of the United States is greater than Canada's entire population. And you know what else? Who cares about your muliticulturalism. We want an American league with local flavor. Go start your own league if you can't stand hanging with us parochial Americans.

You guys (American fans leaving dumb comments) hav...

2008-05-05T17:20:00.000-04:00

You guys (American fans leaving dumb comments) have no idea what you're talking about. You guys need to get some of your facts straight. TFC fanbase is very multicultural. You can find all kinds of people (regardless race, class or gender) rooting for the reds aka TFC.

As for article itself, you guys making this a big deal when it shouldn't be a big deal at all.

TFC = Terrible Football Club?

That is why we are currently third place in MLS, right?

"The fact is that without Toronto, the MLS is mino...

2008-05-05T17:17:00.001-04:00

"The fact is that without Toronto, the MLS is minor league. It is the only town where the team gets front page news and is a big deal. There may be a few idiots, that's the consequence when people actually show up to games."

This is not really true, Houston and DC have been front page news in their towns as well and neither has had trouble getting people to show up to games. Hell DC has a dedicated weather forcast in the Washington Post.

Remember that TFC never would have been allowed in...

2008-05-05T17:17:00.000-04:00

Remember that TFC never would have been allowed into the league without the approval of the USSF president. And who is that? Sunil Gulati. And guess what. He's on the New England Revolution payroll. Nothing personal, Canada, but we don't want you in our league. It's that simple. Go start your own. You can argue all you want that you and your team are models. Nothing changes the fact that a new USSF administration could bounce you in a hearbeat.

The fact is that without Toronto, the MLS is minor...

2008-05-05T17:00:00.000-04:00

The fact is that without Toronto, the MLS is minor league. It is the only town where the team gets front page news and is a big deal. There may be a few idiots, that's the consequence when people actually show up to games.

The team is appreciated in this town and hopefully it will last. In other cities, teams do not even get a mention in their newspapers. I keep on hearing "wait until we get a stadium" from other people, but just like in baseball, stadiums don't keep interest alive, teams do.

"The TFC fans as someone pointed out above are lar...

2008-05-05T16:54:00.000-04:00

"The TFC fans as someone pointed out above are largely white, working class drinkers that reflect the prejudices of many football fans from England in the 1980s."

are you implying that white, working class men are racist? pretty bold statement.

I think Toronto FC would have far less of a backla...

2008-05-05T13:56:00.000-04:00

I think Toronto FC would have far less of a backlash if they were a little bit humble. They came into the league acting like they were above it. And I am so fucking sick of everyone from ESPN to Ives ramming their "great European Atmosphere" down our throats. DC has had a "Great South American Atmosphere" for 10+ years. Eat that TFC.

Hopefully they will do to these hools what they did to them in England, make them sit down and shut up and ban anyone who throws anything on the pitch.

You want to be like the Premiership? go right ahead and keep tearing shit up and pretty soon you will sit in a stadium where fun is banned.

MLS has reaped what it sowed.Toronto should NEVER ...

2008-05-05T13:48:00.000-04:00

MLS has reaped what it sowed.

Toronto should NEVER have been given a team.

NEVER.

This is an American league with American development in mind and an American model. FIFA generally does not sanction cross border leagues and I assumed they would block this team from starting.

Now the hooliganism and racists who can't get into QPR's ground have descended on North America ready to pillage the successful fusion we have created of American marketing, latin futbol, and some European, non-British training.

Our league now has helped Canada build a national stadium and training ground which as someone described above threatens the US in CONCACAF.

They have brought the worst turf into this league at a time when other teams are making positive steps to either dump turf, or improve their turf.

TFC never should have been brought into MLS.

None of this surprises me and quite frankly it is too late to do anything. Hacks like Ives write stories on how great their fans are and then it becomes accepted as gospel. The cat is out of the bag and isn't getting back in.

"you think we like playing your american teams??? ...

2008-05-05T11:11:00.000-04:00

"you think we like playing your american teams??? fuck em.... we are dying for the mls to put in Montreal and vancouver...cities with real fans"

Real fans like those who destroy subway cars because they can not handle their nasty ass Canuckistan beer?

Or maybe the real fans who pissed on the lawn of a church in Columbus during a wedding?

Or no, maybe you mean the real fans who threw projectiles onto a pitch?

If thats what constitutes a "real fan" then fuck off.

You think we like you canadians leeching off the success of our league because your own league collapsed, your CSA is a joke and your best players (de guzman, hargreaves) don't even want to be Canadian ?!

Go on, fuck off and form your own league with Montreal and Vancouver.

A cultural comparison:

Aussies: Dislike being mistaken for Pommies (Brits) when abroad.

Canadians: Are rather indignant about being mistaken for Americans when abroad.

Americans: Encourage being mistaken for Canadians when abroad.

Brits: Can’t possibly be mistaken for anyone else when abroad.

Aussies: Believe you should look out for your mates.

Brits: Believe that you should look out for those people who belong to your club.

Americans: Believe that people should look out for & take care of themselves.

Canadians: Believe that that’s the government’s job.

Aussies: Are extremely patriotic to their beer.

Americans: Are flag-waving, anthem-singing, and obsessively patriotic to the point of blindness.

Canadians: Can’t agree on the words to their anthem, when they can be bothered to sing them.

Brits: Do not sing at all but prefer a large brass band to perform the anthem.

Americans: Spend most of their lives glued to the idiot box.

Canadians: Don’t, but only because they can’t get more American channels.

Brits: Pay a tax just so they can watch four channels.

Aussies: Export all their crappy programs, which no-one there watches, to Britain, where everybody loves them.

Americans: Will jabber on incessantly about football, baseball, and basketball.

Brits: Will jabber on incessantly about cricket, soccer, and rugby.

Canadians: Will jabber on incessantly about hockey, hockey, hockey, hockey, and how they beat the Americans twice, playing baseball.

Aussies: Will jabber on incessantly about how they beat the Poms in every sport they play them in.

Americans: Spell words differently, but still call it “English”.

Brits: Pronounce their words differently, but still call it “English”.

Canadians: Spell like the Brits, pronounce like Americans.

Aussies: Add “G’day”, “mate” and a heavy accent to everything they say in an attempt to be cool.

Brits: Shop at home and have goods imported because they live on an island.

Aussies: Shop at home and have goods imported because they live on an island.

Americans: Cross the southern border for cheap shopping, gas, & liquor in a backwards country.

Canadians: Cross the southern border for cheap shopping, gas, & liquor in a backwards country.

Americans: Drink weak, bad-tasting beer.

Canadians: Drink strong, bad-tasting beer.

Brits: Drink warm, bad-tasting beer.

Aussies: Drink anything with alcohol in it.

Americans: Seem to think that poverty & failure are morally suspect.

Canadians: Seem to believe that wealth and success are morally suspect.

Brits: Seem to believe that wealth, poverty, success and failure are inherited things.

Aussies: Seem to think that none of this matters after several beers.

This is a very serious issue and I applaud this we...

2008-05-05T10:52:00.000-04:00

This is a very serious issue and I applaud this website for bring light to the situation. Once the adulation of other MLS wears off of TFC and the reality comes out we will realize that we have brought an element into our league that we have tried to keep out successfully for 13 years.

The TFC fans as someone pointed out above are largely white, working class drinkers that reflect the prejudices of many football fans from England in the 1980s.

This is not what MLS is about.

Besides, MLS is an AMERICAN league and some of us opposed expanding to Canada and helping nation wee compete with on CONCACAF develop a soccer infrastructure. But some at MLS are so cash driven that they don't care what happens to the national team.