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Here at MLSR we listen to a lot of podcasts. One of our favorites is Simon Allen’s World Soccer Wrap. During their last show they talked about an email they received from a fan who talked about the phenomena in the US of US National Team fans who do not watch MLS. They posed the question: “How would you capitalize on World Cup mania after the World Cup?”
AUDIO:
The answer to bringing some of those who support the US National Team during World Cups into watching MLS is the CONCACAF Champions League. The main reason is because these fans are drawn to the “it’s US against the World” theme of the World Cup. The CONCACAF Champions League as it has been promoted by Seattle has been promoted as just that “Where Seattle Takes on the World.”
MLS Commissioner Don Garber knows this dynamic of US soccer fans not being MLS fans very well as he stated in a live chat he conducted this afternoon on USA Today’s website:
There are no shortage of soccer fans here in America, and our priority is to convince them to passionately support their local MLS team and be a part of helping to turn the U.S. into a great soccer nation.
In other words, the league does not need to convert fans of other sports into soccer fans for MLS to grow in terms of popularity and revenue. It simply needs to convert fans of soccer in the US and Canada into MLS fans.
Our view is that for that to happen, it is first vital that soccer fans in the US and Canada see their local MLS club as part of a larger international competition. The international aspect of the game is what drives US National Team ratings and attendance. The rivalry with Mexico on the national team level is huge. Few US fans are probably aware that Houston for example in 2008, played an exciting 4-4 draw away to Pumas in Mexico, but they should be. That draw should be a thing of pride for the people of Houston, as well as US soccer fans in general for it may be the tip of an iceberg. As the quality of MLS continues to improve so will it’s results in international competitions. But as they say, if a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, did it really make a sound?
While MLS clubs have not done well in the CONCACAF Champions League as of late and typically are eliminated by Mexican clubs, the moment one gets past a Mexican side, MLS should do all it can to promote that fact as it stokes the US vs Mexico rivalry and brings it to a club level in a way that Superliga only could dream of: In a battle to see who represents our region at the FIFA Club World Cup.
If an MLS club were to win the CONCACAF Champions League, MLS should at that point do all it can to promote the FIFA Club World Cup as it remains a somewhat obscure competition to many US National Team fans and supporters. There are many casual soccer fans in this country that have no idea such a tournament even exists or that an MLS team could possibly qualify for it.
To their credit MLS has formed a committee on seeing how it’s clubs can get better results in Champions League with the eventual goal of winning it. So far only DC United (1998) and LA Galaxy (2000) won the precursor to the Champions League, the CONCACAF Champions Cup. When Los Angeles won, the entire tournament took place in Los Angeles. No MLS club has won the tournament since it went to a home/away format and none has won it since the Champions Cup became the Champions League.
In 1998 there was no FIFA Club World Cup and unfortunately for LA Galaxy the FIFA Club World Cup in Spain following their victory was canceled. The Galaxy had the tournament had gone on, was set to take on Real Madrid on August 1, 2001.
Who doesn’t think that match up wouldn’t have, if properly promoted, perhaps fostered further interest in MLS by the casual North American soccer fan?
What say you? Have your say in the comments below…
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MLS will never mesh with CCL until it has the courage to expose itself to the ravages of the free market. That includes allowing clubs to grow as far as owners, communities, and supporters can take them. It also includes promotion and relegation. The MLS single entity cocoon may allow them to eek a nickel out of the game here and there, and protect their closed league holy grail, but MLS falls further and further behind.
MLS fielded 22 players on World Cup rosters in 1998. 5 in 2010. Flat TV audiences. Meagre gains in average attendance.
By most measures MLS is not growing. And that suits a majority of US pro sports owners just fine.
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The above poster obviously has a secondary agenda other than supporting soccer in the USA. MLS is doing better than it ever has. The quality of play is better and many of the teams have or plan to build SSS. Soccer in America only goes up from here.
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Great post & I completely agree. As a recent soccer convert who actually got into soccer via Champions League as opposed to the World Cup, I think MLS is missing a golden opportunity to fan the flames of local, international rivalries. People may not care for MLS itself due to preconceived notions of quality or for whatever other biased reasoning… but I can’t help but feel that more people would come out to these international club matchups if someone just told them that they’re playing for something meaningful. And there could be some incredible environments in these stadiums to boot, with the way the Mexican teams get such strong support here in the States.
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“MLS fielded 22 players on World Cup rosters in 1998. 5 in 2010. Flat TV audiences. Meagre gains in average attendance. ”
Even if it is 5 (I am not so sure it is only that many), how many at the world cup have at one point in their career played for an MLS side? The point is that the league is growing. You have to walk before you can run… And at the current time what is supposed to be happening is happening.
In 1998 US players were regarded as “not good enough” to play for other serious leagues… Now they’re being sold to teams outside. The next step is (like it or not) that they will start being sold to teams in the Premiership and top clubs around the world; then eventually there will be no more selling of players, but picking up talents around the world.
I am baffled by how many times people think that pro/rel will solve all problems. All that will do is collapse the league all-together. The American sports fan would not support a third division side. What Americans support is the chance for their team to be a champion any given year.
Secondly spending sprees won’t do it either. By removing the cap you will have another (original) NASL. The sport simply isn’t big enough in enough markets yet (maybe never) to support open spending. It is what is killing baseball in fact. Outside of Boston and New York, less and less people care about the sport, and it is because of continued dominance of several teams year in year out. It’s not the culture here and never will be. Furthermore, I am not so sure that it is the culture so much in Europe either. Having 2-3 teams take turns of winning champtionships gets boring for any sports fan anywhere. This is why the Euro Champions League became so big. It is because teams are more evenly matched and at any given point any 10 of the 32 could possibly win it all.
As for the editorial… I agree. International competitions are what will drive this league. More exposure, better ranking etc is what will turn soccer fans to becoming MLS fans.
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Great Article! Great points and I agree. Once MLS decides to really “bring it” in the CCL they will gain a lot of those casual fans. And by “bring it” I mean promote it like Seattle is doing and allowing the clubs in the competition to truly compete. 3 DPs will help but a higher overall cap around 5 million will probably allow MLS clubs to regularly get to the final if they are good at scouting talent. There are plenty of players in South America who would come to MLS for 350K or so but right now it’s not practical for MLS clubs to bring them with such a low cap. With a 5 million cap you can have 4 of these guys and 3 DPs and truly compete with the Mexican clubs.
There is nothing wrong with having a salary cap, it’s just not high enough yet.
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I says
I disagree with pro/rel killing the league. I believe that mls approached its baby stages too american example: shootouts, playoffs, roster cap, salary cap, all-star game. Some had to be in place for it to survive such as salary cap. What I disagree was with having a close system. That feature only makes people cheer for big city team. Some fans have to drive 4 hours plus to see a game. What makes soccer great is that anybody can win. If we started out with a lower league like usl did more wealthy people or associations would be able field a team in its young stages and play at a 5,000 seat stadium. if they have a fan base then they can grow. but its grown in the neighborhood. pro/rel would allow small town teams to play in the main league. this would work better since they do not have to drive 4 hours to get to see an mls team they have no emotional attachment to them. with relegation your hometown however small can play big. its not about “if there is a market” , “how big is it” with promotion its only about can the team play, can the team uphold that high intensity of play. owners do not have to put down 40 million on something that might not work. if there is no future in the team’s city they cease operation at a lower level and spend much less. if they see a market then owners can spend more to get the team to a higher level.
lets not even begin with the emotional attachment of lower city teams. this is the market where we have to make converts. most big cities have cosmopolitan populations so they are exposed to soccer either by traveling abroad or through its immigrants. so there will always be some support there. but why would a kid from wyoming, the dakotas or new mexico want to see a game with no one they know in a team going nowhere. but if that team can take on the other top mls sides and maybe make a ccl run how much more would that game in those small towns mean to those people?
mls is getting better. once they stabelize the league it should be their job to place the lower leagues. it makes it exciting. there is drama at both ends of the tables and the useless games of non playoff teams would be gone as they all have something to play for.
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soccerreform.us and Lord Jon seem to be the only people with brains here. first off i want to support Lord Jon ins saying that MLS agenda is to convert fans into loyal MLS fans (and nothing else) and support their local “franchise” from a grass roots level. sounds pretty good right? well with a MLS limit of 20 and a FIFA limit of 24 and with the mls cartel concentrating on just the big cities in which they can extract as much money from, how can anyone from anywhere else support for their club from a grass roots level except for those fortunate ones that live at least 4 hours from their club. take that alittle further with stadiums being located in the suburbs and not in the cities them selvs. i live in gainesville, fl my nearest mls club is DC United, nearest professional club is FC tampa and a future mls prospect is Miami. thats friggin 5 hr drive. yet there are several clubs here that play in the USASA which if pro/rel exist can have a chance to progress to MLS. if thats the case then there are millions of communities that can join in and support their club from a true grass roots level and hey thats how it all started in europe and south america. and many of those communities are true grass root type soccer people who play local soccer pub clubs, live and breath soccer, unlike the fake fans that make up mls. this in turns will create more talent in more places than just the big cities with a mls club located somewhere near there. another fact is that pro/rel actually will organize our fucked up soccer pyramid. we have mls, USL competing with MLS and NASL (whom ironically are trying to just stay put as a 2nd division) USL 2 and USL 3, PDL, USASA. if those leagues can be put in a organized pyramid with pro/rel it will open up more doors. pro/rel will also improve talent because more clubs will take soccer seriously because their leagues finally has some sort of relevance. look at ever country with a league system with pro/rel rich or poor. (fyi MLS is the fourth richest league in the world) and look at their respective national teams and it doesnt have to be europe look at mexico, chile, argentina, even japan all of them better than MLS and USMNT. now look at all the countires besides US that has single entity and how good they are. Australia. hmmmmmmmm i thought so. granted USMNT are very good for a mediocre league as a premier league and what if pro/rel was in place. Project 2010 would have been a success. pro/rel will also force owners to do a better job and actually pay attention to their clubs and put a better product out there. which will attract even more fans. you have fc dallas and most notably NE revs not giving a hoot about their clubs to win. once a mls club knows it will not advance to mls playoffs their mentality is “oh we will have next year and if we do worse we will get a better position in the draft next year lets keep slacking off”. thats a huge slap to the face of fans. tell me thats not mediocre. going back to fans why dont they cheer for any teams? or for that matter why dont they watch MLS? because they have no club to cheer for. idk what the hell MLS agenda is. they dont care about the sports progress they just want money. leave it to a former NFL exec to run this league. he could have made a huge step by allowing free agency which is not only a basic FIFA right for players but a system that attracts players from around the world and they are accusmt to ; instead he asked for a 3 million dollar raise and gave mls players crumbs.
now showing support to soccerreform.us (btw i am aware of your site) single entity puts a cap on club growth in this country. salary cap, roster restrictions, clubs are not allowed to hold contracts, all desicions are made by MLS board of directors and not by clubs. how can clubs make any desicions to improve their club when you have 5 people running the league? hell they even made a damn committee about how to improve club strength in concacaf (CONCACAF!!!) do you see EPL, Spanish league, or any league in europe doing that? and yet people give credit for single entity “oh it kept us afloat, we dont want to become like NASL, MLS is doing better than ever before” do you really want to know what really kept this leaguee afloat? revenue sharing. yes single entity cut cost down but clubs still lost millions of dollars yet revenue sharing is what kept clubs like fc dallas, NE revolution, colorado rapids going. revenue sharing can exist without single entity. during the cba negotiations garbage garber said “free agency will corrupt our single entity structure and send prices skyrocketing”. well with a salary cap how can prices surpass the damn salary cap? garber’s propaganda is that he wants mls clubs to be the best in the world and mls to be the best league in the world. with a damn cap how can they progress? thats why you have mls clubs killing each other for a 1-1 or 1-0.
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“Promoting” the CCL simply won’t be good enough. On the field matters as well, and as an outside supporter of the MLS, the team’s squads in the league are simply to small to compete in a tournament that requires consistency long period of time. And the reserves on each team are college guys who have little to no experience whatsoever. Having such small rosters put coaches in tough positions because you are forced to maintain stability not only domestically, but also regionally and which one do you think coaches will put first?
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Libertadores Cup is the future not CCL…. River Plate, Boca Juniors, Gremio, Flamengo,….
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I agree with Jao. I really want MLS to do good in international competitions, but the rosters are not equipped for it. Too small, and not deep enough for long term stability/consistency. There is not enough high caliber talent on MLS rosters to rotate players. Rotation is not such a problem now, but once you start adding more games to the calender and against good teams with depth, MLS sides will show their fatigue much quicker. And injuries to the starting 11 will kill any hopes of MLS teams advancing.
It will get better with MLS’s continued advancement in youth development, renewing the reserve league, and the new 3 DP rule, but roster size and salary cap need to increase. I am not looking for a huge increase, but a little is needed.
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“soccerreform.us Says:
Posted on July 27, 2010 at 1:34 pm
MLS will never mesh with CCL until it has the courage to expose itself to the ravages of the free market. That includes allowing clubs to grow as far as owners, communities, and supporters can take them. It also includes promotion and relegation. The MLS single entity cocoon may allow them to eek a nickel out of the game here and there, and protect their closed league holy grail, but MLS falls further and further behind.
MLS fielded 22 players on World Cup rosters in 1998. 5 in 2010. Flat TV audiences. Meagre gains in average attendance.
By most measures MLS is not growing. And that suits a majority of US pro sports owners just fine.”
The success of MLS teams in CCL and consequently the exposure of the league has nothing to do with about all this eurosnob conversation. I am from Brazil, I live in Brazil and follow MLS, believe or not. And this conversation is simply bullshit. Getting sick about it. Seriously, this is not about the way the league is run, but how its run. MLS should care about CCL and do all they can to win. But they need to help the teams. To win a championship like that you need a bigger rooster. Why? Because you play with your best in CCL and if they are tired, you mix with the reserves in MLS or “save” them to a bigger game. Thats how many brazilians teams do. Thats why they are always getting to the top. Its simply, why cant everybody understand? Its just about priority, giving priority to the competition… In the day the MLS do that, they will be contenders. Let’s see if any DP will travel to Bermuda and play a CCL game… That’s what I am talking about!
“Pygoscelis Says:
Posted on July 27, 2010 at 6:04 pm
Libertadores Cup is the future not CCL…. River Plate, Boca Juniors, Gremio, Flamengo,….”
Are you south american? If you are, how much do you follow soccer (or futbol or futebol)?
No, Libertadores is not the future for american, canadian or mexican teams! WTF? This is an South American competition!!! Okay, mexican teams participate (Chivas is in the semi-finals) but if they won (which never happened and everybody cheer to not happen cuz they are intruders in the league) doesn’t mean nothing because the south american team that played against them in the finals is the one who is going to FIFA Club World Cup. Thats why teams care when play Libertadores.
Libertadores is important? Heck yeah! But, specially in Brazil, when a team is in the competition, you see fans around the stadium with papers “Rumo a Toquio 2010″ or “Rumo a Dubai 2010″, which means going to Toquio or Dubai (wherever the Fifa Club World Cup is, I cant remember where will be this year). Thats another reason why we care so much.
The reason that Mexican teams play Libertadores is because CONMENBOL mothefuckers just care about the money that Mexicans teams put into the competition and that’s it. It’s not because we all want to play with Mexican teams. Everybody hates that… It’s stupid. Travel all way down to someone that actually is “invited” to the competition and win doesnt mean SHIT!
In the day that MLS teams win the CCL playing with a B team, maybe you all should think about Libertadores. But for now, care about your own competition that you won’t even capable to pass the group stage.
Cheers
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Well, while watching the LA vs. Puerto Rico, and seeing an absolutely empty arena, and seeing the Galaxy go down 2-0, it’s apparent Landon is playing in the wrong league. Obviously, the MLS, ESPN, and the teams involved in the Champions League, all need to step up on the marketing front. But when I see Landon playing in front of what looks to be about 5,000 fans, and his teammates aren’t anywhere near as capable as he is, he needs to move across the pond and play with better talent.
Regardless of how you may feel about Landon helping the MLS by staying, the marketing structure is not helping. If the MLS can’t get fans in the seats, Landon deserves to go play in front of larger crowds in the EPL. The attendance for this game is embarressing. The Galaxy also don’t seem to care. Landon should be playing for a team capable of beating Puerto Rico.
I was extremely excited to get the Champions League under way. Still am. But obviously there isn’t enough fan support at this point. The MLS needs to step it up, Even if they greatly improve thier marketing structure, the stadiums still won’t be near capacity. That is clear as day from watching this game. This shouldn’t fall on Landons shoulders. He should get the hell out of here and start playing in front or real crowds in a real football atmosphere. The arguement of keeping him here to increase the popularity of the league goes out the window when nobody shows up to the game to watch him!
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The short term goal of MLS is to surpass the Mexican league. We surpassed their national team with almost no effort, and the quality of domestic league play is not far off. The other short term goal is to be financially competitive with the NHL and NBA. That is also not that far off. The long term future of MLS is, in my opinion, to be on the same level as Holland and Portugal. Both are developmental leagues for young players that still make money draw crowds and have respect. Once LA Galaxy = Ajax MLS will be as successful as it will be in our life times.
As for promotion of CCL goes, did anyone ever once see an MLS tv spot on ESPN during the world cup? They were pimping Donovan and Buddle for ratings but never once promoted their own coverage of MLS. Also having NFL tonight as the lead in program for MLS does not help anyone. Better regional tv deals and ABC/ESPN/FSC doing a better job of not sabotaging MLS will go a longer way than promoting CCL. Getting more fans through the gate will do more than anything.
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Level of the national team has nothing to do with the level of the league. For example, US NT is definitely better than Japanese but if you look at J. League – man, the gap in quality is enormous. And Mexican Primera is entirely different level, it’s not just “far off” – it’s another planet for the present MLS.
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So much for that with LA getting trounced by D2 side PR last night. I saw Tampa play PR a couple of weeks ago. It ended 0-0 draw, but Tampa totally out played PR with numerous chances on goal. They just couldn’t finish. If LA had a terrible time beating the PR side I saw in Tampa, then MLS just took about 50 steps backwards last night. Great article, hopefully MLS brass will heed the warnings and suggestions.
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The US national team surpassed Mexico with “almost no effort”? Really? I must have missed all those American wins at the Azteca.
I agree that the MLS teams should pay much more heed to the CCL. Actual competition is much better than meaningless friendlies against big European teams who could care less about the result and use squad players most of the match. Going to a hostile environment, dealing with less than ideal accommodation, intimidating fans and dodgy referees strengthens teams in the long run. Big name Euro teams know this from five decades of going behind the iron curtain and getting out with a hard fought tie.
And I agree with the idea of entering the Libertadores. As I recall, doesn’t e CCL winner get invited to it. Who cares if they are from a different geographical region? Turkish and Israeli clubs have been playing in UEFA competitions forever and no one cares. Best thing would be to merge the CCL and the Libertadores. Playing the big Argentinian, Brazilian and Uruguayan clubs would be a HUGE boost for the MLS clubs.
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They can start the conversion by NOT using the term soccer anymore.
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J-D: “Well, while watching the LA vs. Puerto Rico, and seeing an absolutely empty arena, and seeing the Galaxy go down 2-0, it’s apparent Landon is playing in the wrong league”
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Toronto beat one of the top teams in Honduras in front of a sold out BMO Field. This isn’t a problem with MLS. Its a problem with LA.
Landon belong’s in MLS. Unfortuantely, MLS seems to believe that LA and NEw York are the premier clubs. Unfortunately, one of the top draw’s in MLS isn’t even an American Club, its in Canada.
I expect Montreal and Vancouver to pull record numbers as well. MLS is trying to create a MAnU, Chelsea & Arsenal effect in MLS through NYC & LA.
Unfortunately, if the salary cap was erased, and the Free Market took over, the best teams will be the teams that can sell tickets… Toronto and Seattle should be on the top of there respective conferences if the Free Market had a say.
It looks like Vancouver, Portland and Montreal will do the same.
LA and NYC are big markets, but unless they can draw big numbers on the balance sheet, they will never be the “big two” until they can regularly make a profit and regularly win the league.
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