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One of the legitimate arguments given against the idea of a single table in MLS is that there would be little for teams at the bottom of the table to play for. Another argument is based on the wrong assumption that single table proponents are asking for the playoffs to be eliminated.
As long time readers of this site know, we at MLSR are in favor of a single table with playoffs.
Recently MLS Commissioner Don Garber appeared on Fox Football Fone In and asked for help in understanding why a single table would be advantageous.
Other than sheer simplicity it can be used to award spots in non league competitions. Another of Don Garber’s comments was that the MLS off season is just too long. We agree.
Therefore we advocate that MLS once again participate in a tournament in Spain that take place between teams from leagues which play a similar summer schedule as MLS: The La Manga Cup.
MLS only participated in it in 2003 and 2004 but Red Bull NY, or the Metrostars as they were called then won it. It remains to this day their only international trophy. LA Galaxy, San Jose Earthquakes, and FC Dallas (then Dallas Burn) also participated in it.
By bringing back MLS participation in the La Manga Cup would give MLS fans something else to watch in February besides the Pan Pacific Championship. We also advocate that MLS send two teams to that competition as was done in it’s first year.
Suddenly a single table has a lot to play for and based on the premise below, fans of teams such as Toronto FC, or DC United would have something to look forward to during the lean months of MLS.
And remember the TOP 8 go to the MLS Cup Playoffs.
Table based on one at Single Table MLS.
So this single table addresses both the concerns of Don Garber and the wishes of many fans. As it stands now MLS’s season ends in October, the Cup is played in November, the holidays happen, a month goes by, the Superdraft happens in late January another month goes by, Pan Pacific happens in late February, another month goes by and MLS kicks off in late March. Giving clubs who finish lower on the table entry into these competitions would be the perfect way to make sure that nearly everyone has something to play for in the later part of the season.
MLS Single table
CONCACAF Champions league
Supporters Shield winner
US Open Cup Winner
MLS Cup 2 participants
2010 CONCACAF Champions League participants based on theoretically the Columbus Crew meeting LA Galaxy in MLS Cup Final
If one of the clubs qualified twice then participation would be by invitation based on aggregate points from the 2009 MLS
season.
1. The participating clubs representing Major League Soccer would be:
a. Columbus Crew (Supporters Shield Winner and MLS Cup Participant)
b. Seattle Sounder FC (US Open Cup Winner)
c. LA Galaxy (MLS Cup participant)
d. Houston Dynamo (Next based on points)
SuperLiga
After CONCACAF Champions League participants are decided.
For 2010, participation would be by invitation based on aggregate points from the 2009 MLS
season and clubs which are not part of the 2010-2011 CONCACAF Champions League. In the event that a
club passes on the invitation, the next club in line based on points would be invited.
1. The participating clubs representing Major League Soccer would be:
a. Chicago Fire
b. Chivas USA
c. Real Salt Lake
d. New England Revolution
La Manga Cup (Last 3 weeks in February)
After CONCACAF Champions League and SuperLiga participants are decided.
For 2010, participation would be by invitation based on aggregate points from the 2009 MLS
season providing club(s) are not part of the 2010-2011 CONCACAF Champions League or 2010 SuperLiga. In the event that a
club passes on the invitation, the next club in line based on points would be invited.
1. The participating clubs representing Major League Soccer would be:
a. Colorado Rapids
b. DC United
c. Toronto FC
Pan Pacific Championship (Late February)
After 2010-2011 CONCACAF Champions League, 2010 SuperLiga & 2010 La Manga Cup participants decided.
For 2010, participation shall be by invitation based on aggregate points from the 2009 MLS season providing club(s)
are not part of the 2010-2011 CONCACAF Champions League, 2010 SuperLiga or 2010 La Manga Cup. In the event that a
club passes on the invitation, the next club in line based on points will be invited.
1. The participating clubs representing Major League Soccer will be:
a. FC Dallas
b. Kansas City Wizards
So with a single table you can send conceivably the top 13 out clubs out of 15 this year, 16 in 2010 and 18 in 2011 to an international competition unless a non MLS club wins the USOC. If that happens then the top 12 clubs receive a berth into a tournament. This would make all of the games count and give clubs that are at the bottom an international competition spot to fight for even if they can’t make it into the top 8 for the playoffs.
This year a club like FC Dallas would be awarded for their great run towards the playoff berth they just missed and Toronto and DC United would also get to see perhaps how they stack up against Russian powers like Dynamo Kiev and Shaktar Donesk.
Done.
Playoffs make sense but so does a single table with playoffs and berths into international competitions.
In 2010 MLS has a golden chance to win over new fans and a golden chance due to the balanced schedule to finally make the leap to a single table.
It just makes sense.
What do you think?
MLS could make the off season seem short just by returning to the off season competition in Spain.
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Single Table is the best.
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I like it.
I want to see the MLS playoffs, I would like to see teams in a single table ranking, instead of two conferences. I just like the aesthetics of it. The qualifying berths are an ok idea, even though some tournaments are great. Its still……something
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Meant to write even though some tournaments ‘aren’t’ the most prestigious.
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I’ve always been a proponent of a single table format.
MLS should differentiate itself from the other sports that have conferences / divisions, etc. I like the proposed single table format above with the notion of different clubs qualify for different tournaments based on their final standings. I also hope, one day before I die that there will be a 2nd tier of MLS and a promotion / relegation, however rather than just a common top two move up and bottom two move down concept – you put it to a playoff system – which allows the bottom two to fight it out in a playoff with the 2nd tier top 2 teams, thus giving the fans something more for their respective clubs. Just my 2 cents.
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i agree with the format. and i think they should get rid of the confrence titles in the playoffs. its stupid that a western team plays a eastern confrence title. and the trophys are tiny. they should award the title to the 1st place of each conf. that finish the season. also the concaf champions league or the Superliga (lol spin off of UEFA CL) should also award a berth to the COMBELOB Sudamericana so MLS teams (if they win) will not only get to play in the WC. but also play in the sudameriaca to get some real competition as oposed to the central american teams.
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What makes you think MLS will win new fans if it moves to a single table? It doesn’t matter if MLS has playoffs, single table, or whatever, fans will show up to see good soccer. Period. Just because something is done a certain way in Europe doesn’t mean we should do it that way here.
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Garber does make a good point about rivalries and how it relates to having conferences. It benefits everybody to have more games against local rivals. If the number of teams requires the schedule to be unbalanced in the future then it would only make sense for teams to have fewer cross country games and more games against local rivals.
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I like the way this single table is done up. Plenty of teams having something to play for well after the regular season. NYRB, I agree with you. The trophies are freakin small. Make ‘em bigger. The Rocky Mountain Cup is bigger then the Conference Champion Cup
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Stevo, exactly. It isn’t hard to do. Everybody plays their closest neighbours home and away the same year and any long trips can be a home and away with 1 year separation.
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The conference argument doesn’t work next year when every team is playing every other team in the league home-and-away.
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I like the single table format. Why should two teams on one part of the country be guaranteed to have a chance at the playoffs even if they finish under the top 8 teams from the other? Rivalries aside, every team still plays the same amount of games.
It should be the best 8.
I also don’t like that Garber is forcing rivalries on fans in hopes of saving travel costs. A team should play everyone twice (home & away)…simple. More teams…more games…longer season. And if Garber is using the excuse of being exclusively American, then why are we using ‘Super Classico’ as a catch phrase to distract attention from the fact that either Chivas or Galaxy need their own stadium?
Im also sick of American announcers saying Classico, Derby, he did well to make that play, acres of space…I get it…Green Street Hooligans – Goal – Bend It Like Beckham…please, get off the EPL announcers tea bags.
MLSR should make a list of acceptable soccer terminology for Americans and a list of words and phrases that should be avoided. We have yet to find a voice for the MLS, you know, one of those voices that gives the sport life. Like a Harry Caray. Something American. Someone special.
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Personally, I am in favor of both a permanently balanced schedule and a single table. Nothing waters a rivalry down more than overexposure. For example: how boring has the Yankees-Red Sox rivalry become in baseball? They play 18 times per year (3 home series and 3 away). The same thing will happen if teams play their “rivals” more often than other teams- it will make those rivalry games less pertinent. In addition, having each team play every other at home and away each season allows the fans of each team the opportunity to see the large, marketable stars that clubs bring in (ie, the Beckhams, Blancos, Angels, Ljungbergs, and *fingers crossed* Henrys of the world). This type of format, more than any other, will allow for prolonged growth of the league- exposure to a variety of different players, teams, and styles- and will fill the seats on a long-term basis. If teams can’t even sell out their playoff games, rather, not even come CLOSE to selling out their playoff games (cough cough Revs, RSL), what leads to the belief that more rivalry games will?
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The table isn’t big enough to have teams finish 13th and get to play in an international tournament. A team that finishes third-to-last should be PENALIZED, not rewarded. If we think the Pan Pacific sucks and we want to demonstrate that by sending awful teams, maybe give them the Wizards, but if we want to demonstrate that the US clubs can stand tall in the world, that’s the opposite of the way to do it.
As long as every team plays every team home-and-away, a single table makes sense. BUT if you agree that the season is too long, you’ve got to get behind breaking the league into two conferences after reaching the 20 team mark, because at that point you have no choice but to make the season longer – essentially moving back the start to early March.
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Michael: The table isn’t big enough now but with 18 or 20 teams it will be big enough. The idea is to start now. Remember MLS like parity. The “Everybody gets something!” thing ought to sell it to MLS’s Competition Commitee.
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I’m down for the single table b/c explaining the playoff picture to someone trying to get interested in the league can be challenging. It’d be easier to just show them one table and point to teams 1 through 8. One newbie even asked me why there are conferences if the best 8 teams just go to the playoffs anyway.
If we’re going to be a playoffs league, we may as well make it easy to understand.
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I like the single table. Basically, the top 8 make the playoffs, and the top is Supporters Shield. That’s sounds single table to me.
I’m not 100% convinced that so many teams should get rewarded with int’l play, seems a bit like “everyone gets a trophy”. I do like the idea that everyone’s playing for something. Plus, after we add 3 more squads, then it would make more sense.
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How can anyone argue against a single table? It would greatly increase interest in the league simply for the fact that there are so many soccer fans in this country used to the single table of all the top leagues, and the MLS is striving to become a top league. It would also make the qualification processes much simpler
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NO SINGLE TABLE, NO SINGLE TABLE, NO SINGLE TABLE,
the best part of the mls is the local rivalries, the best aspect of the mls is influence of traveling supporters when there r sum. the play on the field could suck, but every toronto vs columbus game at columbus is worth watching for the charisma the fans bring. when phily enters the league next year, it will give the east coast three other teams to travel for away games without costing a fortune
as for redsox / yank games boring, r u kidding, im sox fan, ill tell u whats boring is watching sox play kc or oakland or any of those poorly operated teams out west.
if u want to have a single table, have one for the east coast teams and west coast teams, those teams from each conference play only teams from their conference until the mls cup. sort of major league baseball until they ruined it with inter league play
if mls goes to single table guess what ur going to loose a lot of fans. why why why ????? does so many people on these bloggs have such eurocentric view. allow the mls to have a minor american touch on the beutiful game instead of copying what europe does leagues in japan and in south america have there own charateristics, and then there is mexico playoff system i dont got clue on how it works but it gives their league there own distinctive character
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Simple, single table and the rivalries wont leave,cities dont move dumb fucks. C’mon……… single table and hopefully the league will grow to a 22 team league or 24, but i say 22 team league. Then we will have a MLS-2 with promotion yet, common sense, until later 0n about 10 to 13 years. Single table, Concacaf Champions, US Open Cup,superliga, and pan pancific. If IF IF IF one day in years MLS joins the Copa Libertadores, or Copa Sudamericana, get rid off pan pancific and superliga. MLS would do good, not great or perfect, AT FIRS. Start from August to April MLS season and adding the sinle table when the league grows to 20 teams and staying with the US Open Cup, Concacaf Champions and adding Copa Libertadores or Copa Sudamericana and getting rid of Superliga and Pan Pancific, or making Superliga a more powerful tournament. Its simple……… but people like to make money instead of fans. Fans first then money
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Call me naive but what about the US Open Cup?
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John F,
A single table is not a eurocentric view. Its soccer-centric! The MLS doesn’t have to be like baseball, and baseball, imo, is boring! Thats why MLB had to come up with a slogan (America’s past time) to brainwash people into thinking they would be less eurocentric if they watched it. I don’t blame them because what happens if in a decade or so the majority of American people take to soccer? You’ll have a mess of bankrupt MLB owners with their thumbs up their asses wondering what to do with all these empty baseball stadiums.
I actually think the NFL is overdue for a single table promotion/relegation system. How great would that be. I might actually watch it. Still couldn’t pay me to watch baseball though.
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Man, Dynamo Kyiv and Shakhtar Donetsk are not Russian teams. You know, USSR is long gone and Ukraine is almost 20 years old now.
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HAHA, Ya! Bag on RSL for not selling out their stadium when they were competing head to head with the University of Utah football game. People at my work like the UofU football and RSL, but as americans, UofU football won. Also, Utah is very mormon, and mormons love halloween more than any other holiday besides Xmas (its strange but true). They dress up and all day festivities. Only a Utahn would konw. They all had halloween parties and socials pre-planned before RSL made the playoffs. So battling a holiday and a national pass-time is hard to win for soccer in the USA.
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i think the single table would only work if you had relegation – otherwise, as has been said, the cellar-dwelling teams have no motivation to do much.
i would prefer single-table and relegation, but since we don’t have relegation, i prefer the playoff system. Let’s face it – it keeps more people watching & paying attention longer. If they didn’t have playoffs, how many fans would still be following what was going on right now? So many teams would be out of contention, only the top two teams in the league would really still be paying attention.
we don’t need to copy the EPL, Serie A, La Liga, or what have you. Developing a system to favor the 3-4 strongest teams year-in, year-out isn’t as much fun. those clamoring for that system are just being europhiles, not that there’s anything wrong with that – but you can’t call it “better”. It just has been the standard.
What’s better about having such a lopsided league every year? parity makes it more fun for all, one of the few things americans got right. and this is coming from a european. as a brit man u fan, i somewhat envy the american style playoff format.
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Hey Stevo,
do you and Garber really mean to say that a single table would somehow harm rivalries?!!!
perhaps you and Garber should travel to England and take in a Liverpool/Manchester derby or ManU/Man City, Arsenal/Tottenham, any London club vs any other London club. Then come back and tell us how a single table hurts rivalries. Please try to think before you post. If Garber really believes that he is a bigger fool than than I already thought.
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jh-
The USOC is an invitational tournament…all MLS (and various other US leagues’) teams are eligible every year…it’s not tied to league standings.
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Vic, please take English 101.
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Here is the answer. East and west conferences. You play each team in your conference twice, once home, once away. You play each team in the other conference once, where home and away alternate each year. Top four teams from each conference make the playoffs, BUT, the east plays the west. So, E1 v W4, E2 v W3, E3 v W2 and E4 v W4. The league needs 20 teams for this format, but this is the best way to go.
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Uhhhh, maybe I’m missing something but if the offseason is too long than why not make the season just a few games longer by continuing a balanced schedule even when Vancouver and Portland join? Doesnt this solve the problem of a long offseason and an unbalanced schedule due to additions? Seems pretty obvious… And even if an unbalanced schedule were to come back after the 2010 season it doesnt neccessarily mean that local rivalries would have to be ignored in scheduling. Scheduling can still accomodate these rivalries. You think DC fans are gonna forget they hate NY just because they arent labeled ‘Eastern Conference’ teams. You think the Portland – Seattle rivalry would suffer by them being in a single table instead of the Western Conference together? Hellll nooo, their rivalry doesnt suffer even when their in different leagues! Geographic rivalries would not suffer, nor would they have to be ignored… The single table is organized and it resonates with soccer fans around the globe along w/ our very own Eurosnobs. Even with 18 teams or more, the 8 playoff spots are enough to keep most markets tuned in til the last week.
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meant to say if the offseason is too SHORT* obviously
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Singe table’s the only way to fly.
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I like the single table in general if we have an eight-team home & home system, which re-seeds for the home side. I would also LOVE if since we do the playoff thing if the idea of the higher seed gets to select their opponent, and we start giving away goal preference.
Conferences are primarily designed to reduce travel. If they aren’t reducing travel, which is a good thing, then don’t artificially split the league.
Props to the proposal. Also, let’s see the playoffs on Tuesday-Friday, too. Let’s stop competing with gridiron!
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I think single table is fine, but its not that important. I think we need to stop sucking on the tit of Europe and stop trybing be emulate them. Maybe the ones who favor doing everything like Europe are transplants, but here in the US we do things differently. I love the playoffs. without them single table would be extremely boring since we don’t have and never will have relegation, because no owner/business man will fork 40 million to end up in MLS2 or USL. We don’t do relegation in any Major sport in the US. Its just not feasible. Besides, all our sports leagues have playoffs, its how we do it here and obviously the fans prefer it, just look at the success of the other sports leagues we have. I am thoroughly enjoying the playoffs, and would not want it any other way. As for the single table, I agree with garber that keeping conferences allows for team in same region to travel less. Forget cost, think about jet-lag. No European country spans 4 time zones, and if any one out there is a frequent traveler knows the effects of jetlag. PLEASE stop trying to do everything like Europe. Lets just do what works for us, what our fans demand. Playoffs are the way to go, they are here to stay. Single table is a secondary issue. I think better quality play is much much more important.
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NO ONE is suggesting the abolition of the playoffs.
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Single Table standings = Tournament berths + Playoffs
MLS needs to get on this, pronto!
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