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This is the full conversation between the site owner of Keepin' It Real and one of our editors as it took place yesterday, Saturday, 28 September.
We were never going to publish the full conversation and series of emails but since the owner of Keeping It Real has attacked our credibility and brought into question the veracity of our previous posting which outlined the events and paraphrased what he said we see no choice. On at least one message board he left that impression out there rather than own up to exactly what he said.
With one of our contributors a veteran of the whole ThinkSecret court case we are well aware of our rights as a news and rumor blog. His condescension was laughable.
Therefore we leave it to you to judge.
Forwarded Conversation
Subject: Content infringement
------------------------
From: R Davis To: MLSRumors@gmail.comDate: Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 1:52 PM
Please remove any of my content from your site immediately. Your use of my content without my permission is considered theft under the DMCA act. I have notified you on three occasions of this current violation and you have not corrected the offense, and have not taken it seriously. This is at least the second picture of mine that you have presented on your site as your own material. If the matter is not corrected immediately, I will file a DMCA complaint on Monday per Google's infringement procedures: http://www.google.com/blogger_ This a serious issue and should be treated as such. The last website that we filed a complaint on www.rslfm.com was shut down for such violations. I have worked with digital content, and corresponding infringement violations for the past 8 years. I put alot of my own time, efforts and money into covering the various topics and events that I cover, and do not appreciate your assumption that this is free content for you to use as your own. Thank you. |
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From: MLS RUMORS
To: R Davis
Date: Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 2:44 PM
We would love to remove such content. As you likely already know, under the DMCA you must tell us exactly where the alleged infringement occurred so that we may comply with your request. As our blog is a collection of writers we have no idea when or where the alleged infringement occurred. Please give us links to stories which contain your content hosted by us, Google or blogger as outlined below. To expedite our ability to process your request, please use the following format (including section numbers): 1.Identify in sufficient detail the copyrighted work that you believe has been infringed upon. This post must include identification of the specific posts, as opposed to entire sites. Posts must be referenced by the permalink of the post. For example, "The copyrighted work at issue is the text that appears on http://johndoe.com/test/2006_ 2. Identify the material that you claim is infringing the copyrighted work listed in item #1 above. YOU MUST IDENTIFY EACH POST BY PERMALINK OR DATE THAT ALLEGEDLY CONTAINS THE INFRINGING MATERIAL. The permalink for a post is usually found by clicking on the timestamp of the post. For example, "The blog where my copyrighted work is published on is http://copyright.blogspot.com/ Regards, MLSR Editors [Quoted text hidden] |
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From: MLS RUMORS
To: DCMA Support
Date: Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 3:00 PM
We are forwarding this as evidence that we wish to comply with R Davis's request however he has not provided enough information on which to act. [Quoted text hidden] |
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From: MLS RUMORS
To: R Davis , DCMA Support
Date: Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 3:03 PM
Additionally, this is the first email we have received from you. You allege you have notified us on three occasions but that is not correct. This is the first notice we have received from you. On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 1:52 PM, R Davis <realslfan@yahoo.com> wrote: [Quoted text hidden] |
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From: R Davis
To: MLS RUMORS
Date: Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 3:24 PM
I have already identified the specific infringements through the individual posts. You have even replied to them in both cases. I am not required to notify you through email, or to fill out the Google format for you below. In fact, I am not required to contact you directly at all prior to filling out a DMCA complaint, I did that to be considerate and allow you to correct the action without filing a complaint. You as a site owner are required to make sure that you have legitimate ownership of any property posted on your site, or permission from the property owner to do so. Here is the most recent post: http://www.mls-rumors.net/ If you notice there is a post and a reply from your site. I submitted more recent comments, but the comments were suddenly "subject to review" before posting and they have not appeared. Here is the prior post: http://www.mls-rumors. Again notice that you replied to my post. I expect these to be taken care of immediately. ----- Original Message ---- From: MLS RUMORS <mlsrumors@gmail.com> To: R Davis <realslfan@yahoo.com> Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 3:44:28 PM Subject: Re: Content infringement We would love to remove such content. As you likely already know, under the DMCA you must tell us exactly where the alleged infringement occurred so that we may comply with your request. As our blog is a collection of writers we have no idea when or where the alleged infringement occurred. Please give us links to stories which contain your content hosted by us, Google or blogger as outlined below. To expedite our ability to process your request, please use the following format (including section numbers): 1.Identify in sufficient detail the copyrighted work that you believe has been infringed upon. This post must include identification of the specific posts, as opposed to entire sites. Posts must be referenced by the permalink of the post. For example, "The copyrighted work at issue is the text that appears on http://johndoe.com/test/2006_ 2. Identify the material that you claim is infringing the copyrighted work listed in item #1 above. YOU MUST IDENTIFY EACH POST BY PERMALINK OR DATE THAT ALLEGEDLY CONTAINS THE INFRINGING MATERIAL. The permalink for a post is usually found by clicking on the timestamp of the post. For example, "The blog where my copyrighted work is published on is http://copyright.blogspot.com/ Regards, MLSR Editors On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 1:52 PM, R Davis <realslfan@yahoo.com> wrote: > > Please remove any of my content from your site immediately. Your use of my content without my permission is considered theft under the DMCA act. I have notified you on three occasions of this current violation and you have not corrected the offense, and have not taken it seriously. This is at least the second picture of mine that you have presented on your site as your own material. If the matter is not corrected immediately, I will file a DMCA complaint on Monday per Google's infringement procedures: http://www.google.com/blogger_ > > This a serious issue and should be treated as such. The last website that we filed a complaint on www.rslfm.com was shut down for such violations. I have worked with digital content, and corresponding infringement violations for the past 8 years. I put alot of my own time, efforts and money into covering the various topics and events that I cover, and do not appreciate your assumption that this is free content for you to use as your own. > > Thank you. |
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From: MLS RUMORS
To: R Davis , DMCA Support
Date: Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 4:48 PM
On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 3:24 PM, R Davis <realslfan@yahoo.com> wrote: Your first contact with our editors was via your first email which constitutes a Cease and Desist Notice. In order to comply with it you are required to furnish us a list of offending links in any DMCA complaint which is what your first email to us constituted. We are an anonymous rumors blog with many independent writers who comb through forums and other online sources. By our very nature it is impossible to ascertain who owns what when things are sent to us. As a copyright holder it is your responsbility to defend and protect your copyright and identify specific violations of it to the offending party, which you allege us to be. The images in question were inline images embeded by someone other than us online. To that end perhaps you or someone known to you posted your images in such a forum. Such as here.... http://www.bigsoccer.com/ If you posted or gave permission to someone who posted said image in a public forum without identifying information that they are yours ie - watermark, stamp, etc then your case of infringement becomes weak since many forums terms and conditions allow for content posted on them to become their property and thus you did not protect or defend your copyright. You may want to check that out. Regarding this...
Here was the email we were sent, maybe you should go after them for infringement.... From: ADDRESS DELETED TO MAINTAIN ANONYMITY OF SOURCE Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 22:03:19 +0000 To: <mlsrumors@gmail.com> Subject: Rumors that Jared Borgetti is about to sign with ReAL Salt Lake. Here is a shot of him from behind. As you can see he is just shorter than David Horst who is 6'3 and Jared is 6'1 [IMAGE REMOVED FROM THIS FORWARDED CONVERSATION SO AS NOT TO REDISTRIBUTE IT]
I did not, one of our writers may have.
Going forward you should know that our use of inline images as a news site is constitutes fair use. Under the fair use doctrine, it is not an infringement to use the copyrighted works of another in some circumstances, such as for commentary, criticism, news reporting, or educational use. Regards, MLSR Editors
|
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From: R Davis
To: MLS RUMORS
Date: Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 5:19 PM
It looks like legal action is the way you want to take this. The complaint will be filed Monday. I'm done arguing this issue with you. You clearly do not have right to the content, but you also clearly don't care. I personally choose to follow the law.
The Big Soccer posting you listed is a link, which is completely acceptable and not considered copyright infringement. You however "hotlinked" the image making it appear as your own which is unacceptable.
I clearly communicated a cease and desist through my posts on your site - there are numerous rulings on this which you may be aware of. I have been through this many times before (as I own several concert photography sites), and have had other sites shut down although most are much more cooperative than you have been when I first point this infringement out to them.
The owner of your site is responsible for verifying that your site has ownership rights to ALL content on the site. NO EXCUSES. You are reponsible, no matter how many contributors you have. If you received the content through an outside source it is your responsibility to verify ownership. I do have a responsibility to defend my ownership (or have it subject to Fair Use provisions) which I am clearly doing in this case with your site and with others.
Since you have chosen to make this difficult, I have noticed several other sites content that you are posting - I assume without any rights to do so. I will reach out to those content owners and make them aware of this so that they can pursue action as well if they chose to do so. ----- Original Message ---- From: MLS RUMORS <mlsrumors@gmail.com> [Quoted text hidden] |
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From: MLS RUMORS
To: R Davis , DMCA Support
Date: Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 5:56 PM
If you can not or are unwilling to furnish us with links to alleged infringements beyond what we have already removed then there is no further action we can take. We requested your assistance in giving us the relevant alleged infringements so that we may remove the alleged copyright infringement and you are choosing to ignore that request. The spirit of the request is as important as the wording. Further, your threat at the end of your email indicates that this has gone beyond a simple issue of alleged infringement and ventured into harassment. We have nothing further to say to you and will work with Blogger and Google to resolve your issue. Regards, MLSR |
Im enjoying this goading quite a bit
That RSL guy is a dickhead. He boasts about closing down RSLFM, what a douchebag!
Well that about settles it. Looks like I'll be removing a site from my bookmarks and my blog's blog list. Thanks for clearing the air about all this.
Really? You're going this far to besmirch someone's name? You guys really are something else. I don't think this guy is very cool either, but please, let your site to the rumors and leave your nonesensical editorials and stupid little email bitch fights off.
I don't give a shit which one of you is on the rag this week, I just want to hear the rumors.
there is a saying about guys like this. Don't punch out if you don't wanna be hit back. He called into question the mls rumors account of what went on rather than say "yeah, I told them I had rslfm shut down."
The Keepin it Real blogger is a douche, but Rumor Mill you're just as big a douche. Airing out all your dirty laundry like this, WE DON' CARE, you just brought yourself down to the guys level. Lame, what are you some 15yr old girl gossiping in the bathroom trying to get everyone on your side.
I nor anyone I know comes to your sight because you have "credibility", we come here to pass the time and catch up on rumors, not read about your slap fight with some other blogger. No wonder the DP guys don't take you seriously. I like your site but this is just lame.
this is confusing . . .
The RSL guy is a fucktard.....just follow what MLSR asked and they would remove his shitty work...simple as that......lazy fucker........
You are getting owned on this. "Someone else did it and I didn't know" is not an acceptable defense. Ignorance just shows you are stupid, not innocent.
The RSL guy is an ass-clown!
Bla, bla, bla, bla....this goes on and on. WHO THE HELL CARES??? I DON'T CARE about this, okay? You are a freakin' rumors site, not a "we're exchanging nasty emails back and forth with someone cuz we stole one of their images" site. I DON'T CARE!!! Just stick to reporting rumors. Really. Otherwise, I'd be glad to see you shut down.
I hope someone shuts this site down soon. I like the whole rumors thing, but this is just getting ridiculous. You are just proving to everyone that you really don't have any credibility. I'm happy this guy is taking action against you. Now the question is, when will you learn?????
By the way, the worst part about this post, you are actually advertising for this guys blog. And anyone you doesn't like you guys, will actually go to his blog and give him props. So you are actually directing traffic from here to him. Smart! Very Smart!
Dumbass!
Guys. Get a room.
Both of you need to GROW UP!!! Its a bloody hobby.
The worst part is that he is a terrible photographer. It's a real shame that this whole thing is over his shitty photos.
nobody cares about your dirty laundry...
I NEED ME SOME RONALDO RUMORS!!!
Jesus Christ this is like 2 12 year olds goading each other over IRC.
Who gives a flying fuck?
FOOTBALL NEWS? ANYONE THERE AT MLS WATCH FOOTBALL ANYMORE?
Fucking whining = no readers.
Idiots...the whole lot of you.
If you can't understand why this would be posted...then check yourself if you happen to have glasses and go by the name of Sarah Palin.
MLSR, we enjoy reading the news as it pertains to soccer. Any chance we could get back to it? The drama on this site is childish.
Tell me why I should care about all this.
I'll just check back in a couple weeks and see if it has blown over. Otherwise, I have no use for this site until soccer is the main subject.
this whole thing is pathetic, i come here as a joke when i'm bored, but it's a truly classless site and I won't be coming back.
If this is such a big deal to you, and if that other guy is so clueless about the law - why did you remove his content?
I don't know much about the other guy - but this whole thing on your part is pathetic.
MLSR sure wants attention.
This site would be so much better if you folks didn't take yourselves so seriously.
Run your business behind the scenes. The world's a bitch deal with it.... And don't keep me updated on how you run your business and all of your problems
Drama, dram, drama...
hurry up and write a story about the Vegas group that wants to move the Crew so we can tell there bigot loving fans that we told them so.....
So what's good in soccer these days?
more rumors are coming. Hold tight. We'll be back to normal soon.
Were you ever normal?
Good job. Your intentions were to make the other guy come out looking like an idiot, but in the end it's you that looks like the idiot. Again. Or should I say - still.
Okay, so after all the shouting who has the biggest pecker?
Pretty classless. Stick to your rumors kiddies.
So while you're being petty with this crap, there's a big rumor about the potential sale of part ownership of the Crew to the group looking to bring MLS to Vegas. And you have nothing up about it...
I remember when the former owner/editor of this site was in charge and MLSR was actually really cool. Over the last 12-15 months approx. since he let everyone know he was handing it off the content, attitude and agenda on this blog have changed and become a joke. It used to be 100% rumors or they did not post anything. Now there is a childish, racial undertone to go along with a lot of useless information that I could get by reading Foxsoccer.com if I waited a day longer. It has become 1 part rumors, 5 parts race baiting, and 4 parts childish crap. Sorry guys I am out!!
How mindlessly childish. First you're going to use copyrighted material, then you're going to act super-offended when the rightful owner tell you to stop, then you're going to air your dirty laundry out in the open for everyone to see?