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Before we get a deluge of hate email and comments from Toronto FC fans let us make this DISCLAIMER: We like the Toronto FC fan's passion and feel there should be more of it around MLS. We love the singing, the chanting, the streamers, hey, we even think you guys should have smoke and flares, but we do NOT condone wanton violence or violent conduct directed at people, or in this case inanimate objects. The sport in our two countries can not afford it. We publish this post with a heavy heart but we feel it better to shine a light on the dark so that appropriate self-policing by Toronto fans can naturally evolve as it has in other passionate MLS cities (DC, Houston, Chicago). These are just signs of growing pains for a city that seemed unprepared to handle the passion (and inebriation) of some of the more hardcore football supporters.
That said, after Thursday night's ESPN televised match between Red Bull New York and Toronto FC some others in the blogging world were gushing again about how great Toronto FC fans are, we at MLS Rumors decided to look for the underside of that story, the one that the MLS powers that be would rather you not hear about.
During the game ESPN cameras panned about the stadium showing Toronto FC fans with beers in two hands, some who clearly seemed over their limit. Such as this fan who ran onto the pitch forcing a stoppage of play:
Amateur video of said man being arrested and lead off the pitch.
However, what was not caught by EPSN's cameras after Thursday night's match, were several marauding groups of drunken fans who tore apart several GO commuter rail cars. Video and Photos below:
The topic and others have been hotly debated on Toronto FC message boards
When a reporter asked Mo Johnston about the incidents, Johnston dismissed them as "a few bad apples.
Apparently this is not the first time this has happened as Toronto Metro police have arrested people leaving Toronto FC games previously for conduct, on or around GO trains, and have gradually been increasing their presence.
We reached noted British author, Dougie Brimson, author of March of The Hooligans, a book which among other things, warns of the possibility of a rise of football hooliganism in MLS if not closely monitored.
Here are his words regarding the incidents when we asked if this was the kind of thing he might interpret as a slide towards MLS hooliganism:"Not sure about that. It's certainly not enough to say 'I hate to say I told you so!' but it's definitely a worrying step in that direction.
Funny, only a week or so ago people were posting on certain message boards dismissing my warnings and claiming that such a thing would never happen because MLS fans are amongst the most closely monitored in world soccer.
Humble pie anyone?"
We believe key to growing the game in the US and Canada is to embrace the passion and culture, of the core supporter but to stamp out any anti-social behavior that could give rise to a larger hooligan problem. For its numbers MLS has done a great job of this over its 13 year history but as the league grows challenges will lay ahead.
FUCK U
TFC = Terrible Football Club
go back to your quarter full football stadiums in NY and DC and leave us alone. Why would this article even be put up? things like these happen at every sporting event, and now, just becuase it doesn't happen at some other shithole excuse for a MLS team's stadium everyone is all worried..
bullshit
Ok seriously, TFC does NOT have to best fans in MLS. I am dead serious. Seriously. I am not kidding.
I have been to games in DC, Chicago, Toronto, and Houston (the latter 3 being roadtrips for United, because I am an avid supporter), and by far DC supporters are the best. If you listen, the Toronto fans stop singing periodically, but in the other three cities, the songs go on for the full 90, even when the opposition scores. The TFC, yes you have the numbers but you do not have the passion. Get over yourselves.
Judging by the intelligent comments left so far, the Toronto fans are responding well to this criticism.
What's strange about this is that Toronto fans feel they are somehow closer to the European roots of football/soccer, and they have this curious entitlement in their approach to the game because they have filled BMO park as an expansion club.
Hey - being obnoxious is not being "European" - or "British" which seems to be the point for lots of TFC fans. Any jackass can get drunk and break shit, or disrupt games with streamers, etc. That doesn't make for a great fan base.
TFC fans are just all riding their novelty high, I've said this since last year wait 5 years then talk, if you still sell out every game then I'll buy it. I've dealt with my fair share of their fans and I'm sick of them They came to Columbus this year talking all sorts of trash and what happened Moffat scored and they were quiet the rest of the game. Plus after the game their fans were arrested from pissing on a church during a wedding to starting fights.
I completely agree with Dick Numbers do not equal great fans.
And I stand by my comment
TFC= Terrible Football Club
C'mon, I'm an American here and Toronto FC has the most passionate fans in MLS, it's not even close. Sure Chicago and DC have strong support too, but a stadium of 20k crazies is much different than a corner an NFL football stadium with 500 people at best. Tell me, how many MLS stadiums sing the national anthem in unison. If you've seen "Oh Canada" sung before a TFC game by 20k people it gives you goose bumps. Nobody sings the Star Spangled Banner in the US before MLS games. They are MORE passionate and anyone that disputes that is honestly envious of all the attention an expansion franchise is getting over their own clubs. Peace.
And here are some quotes from some NY Red Bull players from Thursday night's games that further illustrate the best fans are in Toronto and how tough of a place it is play.
NEW YORK RED BULLS GOALKEEPER JON CONWAY On playing in Toronto:
"This is the best place to play in opinion the fans are great -- they're loud, they chant, they're unbelievable... the fans are the reason why I love playing here."
CLAUDIO REYNA:
"A lot of other cities and clubs in the league need to learn from this," Reyna said after Thursday's match. "Whatever they do, it's here in Canada. We love soccer in America, but for whatever reason they really get behind their team here."
bring on portland fans, it's quite obvious they are the best fans in this country and they aren't even MLS!
as far as the toronto fans go regarding wrecking the train, who cares. i've seen/heard much worse from other teams and sporting events, but since it involves soccer...it's got to be called hooliganism and a problem.
Ok, wait till United gets their stadium. TFC fans will look sad and pathetic in comparison.
And yea, let's bring on the Timbers Army!! They by far have the best fans North of Mexico.
And Mohamed, yes I am envious of the ATTENTION they bring to themselves by acting like miniature Euro-pricks. I'd like to see a DC-TFC final at a neutral site like Columbus or New England, where it's and equal distance both ways. The DC fans would be making all of the noise (for reference, see DC United vs. Kansas City, 2004 MLS Cup in LA... DC fans far outnumber and outsing the WIzards.
DC United has the most passionate fans in MLS, and the most diverse group also. Give TFC a few more years and a few less of these types of incidents and we'll talk.
Oh and also pull that turf out and maybe some of us will be more accepting of your club. I will say I write this in all seriousness wearing a TFC T-shirt but I have a shirt from all 14 MLS clubs and just happened to throw the TFC shirt on this AM.
It really pisses me off that for some reason soccer fans in general, and TFC fans in particular, are somehow held to a higher standard than the fans of other sports or teams. And I resent the "hooligan" term. I would ask that people place this sort of thing in proper context. Montreal hockey fans, Detroit basketball fans, fans at Mike Tyson fights, among others have at times certainly been much worse than we have ever been.
I think this all comes down to one simple unfortunate reality. All it is going to take is for one particular asshole to do something extremely stupid to muck it up for all of us. The onus had to be on us to police ourselves and to let other supports know in no uncertain terms that loutish behaviour is not cool and will not be tolerated.
MLS Rumours is pretty sad.
Why yes! This would never happen during a tailgate part for the NFL (oh, wait yes it does, at almost every game) and would certainly never happen after a team loses the world series (oh, wait, yes it does). Drunken fans only exist in Toronto certainly.
I was at that game. I have pictures of the idiot running on the field. I also have pictures of the thousands of fans enjoying themselves and the fans enjoying themselves on the way home.
Enjoy the game, ignore the bullshit drunks that happen at EVERY stadium and don't single out one teams fans for the rowdy behaviour of a few morons.
Jim, why is MLS Rumors sad?
That's a good way to shoot the messenger isn't it? All they did was report what some sad individuals in Toronto did.
Like it or not, we as soccer fans ARE held to a higher standard due to unfortunate incidents in the past. I know this quiet well having come over here from England in the 1980s.
I've actually been to a TFC game and some of the people I've seen leaving the game had the qualities of the lager louts I left behind back in the 1980s. Does that make them hooligans, no, but that is not what the article was saying, it was saying basically the same point you made. If we as soccer fans can not or will not police ourselves then a media and police who are all to ready to label us Hools will.
I'm actually glad this site reported on this because perhaps now the TFC fans will police themselves better.
It's sad to say that if 50 hockey fans or baseball fans ripped up a train like that, it would not be as big a deal, but soccer is treated differently in our countries and we are all under a lot more scrutiny as a result.
But I'm sure you know that.
Ok, fair warning, this is going to be long.
I'm an avid TFC fan and supporter, and yes there are alot of idiots here who do not know how to police themselves on the alcohol intake. Those of us that do drink our adequate amount, chant and cheer, be merry, and support the team. Those that don't...end up pulling the stupid shit that has been reported. In our various supporters groups, we police ourselves very well and rarely if ever do you see anyone who is actually affiliated with a group in any kind of legal trouble or causing any kind of problem. Unfortunately, with the passion we try to bring to the game(this has nothing to do with whose supporters are better than who, so lay off the pissing contests), the casual fans/hardcore drinkers end up inebriated and try to share in that passion in their own ways, which is how things like vandalism occur. The videos shown in this post, the one of the guy being arrested I've never seen, so I can't comment on it, however the video of the two sides chanting at each other does not raise any reason for concern/discussion at all. That has been happening ever since our first game and it's all in fun. The photos on the train, well unfortunately that did/does happen, however we can surely chalk alot of that up to police ineptitude. It has happened before, so rather than place officers in each car after the game to prevent it, they prefer to pretend it will be fine until something happens. I hope to see a greater police presence on the trains after the matches to ensure these occurances do not continue to tarnish our name.
So, to make a long story short, there are "fans" here at TFC games that do not know how to handle themselves, and although we are overall fairly well behaved, it only takes a couple of incidents to give all of the fans/supporters a bad name.
Finally people are looking through the seductive veneer of the TFC experience and seeing the "sophistication" of its fans for what it is: adolescent emulation, a cry for approval, using MLS games as a pretext for aggressive promotion of their city and country. You'll NEVER see that "passion" here because Americans don't seek validation in their professional sports leagues. Sure, the fans there are decent and the games sell out but it's a novelty act, the fans are childish and MLS never should have let a Canadian team into the league. Let's see TFC's fans show that sort of intensity during a game with, oh, Winnipeg or Halifax. One way or the other, MLS asked for it when it didn't fine Toronto FC over the seat cushion episode last year.
lol brian your an idiot...you think we like playing your american teams??? fuck em.... we are dying for the mls to put in Montreal and vancouver...cities with real fans
Brain, you Doctor Phil or something? Not looking for an identity? Sounds like yer diapers just a little soiled we can pack a stadium and most of the MLS cant.
Columbus guy heres bitching, fair enough, they did piss on a fence, but yopu left out the part about your clubs ineptitude to handle more then 400 fans, and realise, people need to piss, and didnt put out porta potties.
I cant disagree, some people do try to act Euro-like, but its a small amount, and they are largley considered a joke.
MLS Rumours reported a story, overblew it a little bit, but they are journalists in the end and thats what they do. Dont come afterwords with the holier-than-thou shit and talk shit about another teams supporters when your own couldnt even pack a Burger King parking lot.
And yes, DCU has awesome fans, come to the forums and you'll see, TFC and DCU fans get along quite well..
Too bad you're reporting has holes the size of swiss cheese...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNfpNFNnpOo&eurl=http://www.mls-rumors.net/
For a game that's final whistle (from where I heard it in section 118) happened almost exactly @ 9pm, that video looks a lot like daytime to me.
Way to skew the publics perception of this GREAT city and its GREAT up and coming team. 2 years in and tied for second? Damn straight.
MLS Rumors are journalists? haha what newspaper or media outlet do they work for? Seriously?! Plus there are always holes in what they write so don't get too crazy about what they said here.
Anyways, they reported what they reported. Big deal, some fans got rowdy before/after a game. It happens everywhere whether you believe it or not. As Mo Johnston put it there are a few "bad apples" out there in every town. It isn't just a soccer thing folks. You'll see rowdy fans with baseball, hockey, football, and basketball too.
It's just life people. There are mostly good fans while a few idiots try and ruin it for everyone. Same old story, just in another town.
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Why not stick to rumors instead of publishing poorly researched, misleading 'editorial'.
Plenty of things happen at other stadiums...(we all remember DC's 'great' fans attacking a group of NYRB fans)...and in other sports in North America.
Sure, some of the TFC fans have gone a little far, that's probably more to do with over-drinking than any coordinated hooligan element that you suggest. Your very impication is misleading and just untrue.
Given the fact that Toronto has double the fans at their games versus most of the league, (and ones that are actually in attendance unlike most fluffed numbers), and the lack of soccer-moms and youth groups - thus a larger adult audience - exponentially more (probably 2x-3x) more people and thus probability would suggest 2x-3x more incidents.
Which seems about right.
It's one thing giving the 'other side of the story', it's another to sensationalise and blow out of all proportion the misdeeds of a couple of idiots.
This is a very serious issue and I applaud this website for bring light to the situation. Once the adulation of other MLS wears off of TFC and the reality comes out we will realize that we have brought an element into our league that we have tried to keep out successfully for 13 years.
The TFC fans as someone pointed out above are largely white, working class drinkers that reflect the prejudices of many football fans from England in the 1980s.
This is not what MLS is about.
Besides, MLS is an AMERICAN league and some of us opposed expanding to Canada and helping nation wee compete with on CONCACAF develop a soccer infrastructure. But some at MLS are so cash driven that they don't care what happens to the national team.
"you think we like playing your american teams??? fuck em.... we are dying for the mls to put in Montreal and vancouver...cities with real fans"
Real fans like those who destroy subway cars because they can not handle their nasty ass Canuckistan beer?
Or maybe the real fans who pissed on the lawn of a church in Columbus during a wedding?
Or no, maybe you mean the real fans who threw projectiles onto a pitch?
If thats what constitutes a "real fan" then fuck off.
You think we like you canadians leeching off the success of our league because your own league collapsed, your CSA is a joke and your best players (de guzman, hargreaves) don't even want to be Canadian ?!
Go on, fuck off and form your own league with Montreal and Vancouver.
A cultural comparison:
Aussies: Dislike being mistaken for Pommies (Brits) when abroad.
Canadians: Are rather indignant about being mistaken for Americans when abroad.
Americans: Encourage being mistaken for Canadians when abroad.
Brits: Can’t possibly be mistaken for anyone else when abroad.
Aussies: Believe you should look out for your mates.
Brits: Believe that you should look out for those people who belong to your club.
Americans: Believe that people should look out for & take care of themselves.
Canadians: Believe that that’s the government’s job.
Aussies: Are extremely patriotic to their beer.
Americans: Are flag-waving, anthem-singing, and obsessively patriotic to the point of blindness.
Canadians: Can’t agree on the words to their anthem, when they can be bothered to sing them.
Brits: Do not sing at all but prefer a large brass band to perform the anthem.
Americans: Spend most of their lives glued to the idiot box.
Canadians: Don’t, but only because they can’t get more American channels.
Brits: Pay a tax just so they can watch four channels.
Aussies: Export all their crappy programs, which no-one there watches, to Britain, where everybody loves them.
Americans: Will jabber on incessantly about football, baseball, and basketball.
Brits: Will jabber on incessantly about cricket, soccer, and rugby.
Canadians: Will jabber on incessantly about hockey, hockey, hockey, hockey, and how they beat the Americans twice, playing baseball.
Aussies: Will jabber on incessantly about how they beat the Poms in every sport they play them in.
Americans: Spell words differently, but still call it “English”.
Brits: Pronounce their words differently, but still call it “English”.
Canadians: Spell like the Brits, pronounce like Americans.
Aussies: Add “G’day”, “mate” and a heavy accent to everything they say in an attempt to be cool.
Brits: Shop at home and have goods imported because they live on an island.
Aussies: Shop at home and have goods imported because they live on an island.
Americans: Cross the southern border for cheap shopping, gas, & liquor in a backwards country.
Canadians: Cross the southern border for cheap shopping, gas, & liquor in a backwards country.
Americans: Drink weak, bad-tasting beer.
Canadians: Drink strong, bad-tasting beer.
Brits: Drink warm, bad-tasting beer.
Aussies: Drink anything with alcohol in it.
Americans: Seem to think that poverty & failure are morally suspect.
Canadians: Seem to believe that wealth and success are morally suspect.
Brits: Seem to believe that wealth, poverty, success and failure are inherited things.
Aussies: Seem to think that none of this matters after several beers.
MLS has reaped what it sowed.
Toronto should NEVER have been given a team.
NEVER.
This is an American league with American development in mind and an American model. FIFA generally does not sanction cross border leagues and I assumed they would block this team from starting.
Now the hooliganism and racists who can't get into QPR's ground have descended on North America ready to pillage the successful fusion we have created of American marketing, latin futbol, and some European, non-British training.
Our league now has helped Canada build a national stadium and training ground which as someone described above threatens the US in CONCACAF.
They have brought the worst turf into this league at a time when other teams are making positive steps to either dump turf, or improve their turf.
TFC never should have been brought into MLS.
None of this surprises me and quite frankly it is too late to do anything. Hacks like Ives write stories on how great their fans are and then it becomes accepted as gospel. The cat is out of the bag and isn't getting back in.
I think Toronto FC would have far less of a backlash if they were a little bit humble. They came into the league acting like they were above it. And I am so fucking sick of everyone from ESPN to Ives ramming their "great European Atmosphere" down our throats. DC has had a "Great South American Atmosphere" for 10+ years. Eat that TFC.
Hopefully they will do to these hools what they did to them in England, make them sit down and shut up and ban anyone who throws anything on the pitch.
You want to be like the Premiership? go right ahead and keep tearing shit up and pretty soon you will sit in a stadium where fun is banned.
"The TFC fans as someone pointed out above are largely white, working class drinkers that reflect the prejudices of many football fans from England in the 1980s."
are you implying that white, working class men are racist? pretty bold statement.
The fact is that without Toronto, the MLS is minor league. It is the only town where the team gets front page news and is a big deal. There may be a few idiots, that's the consequence when people actually show up to games.
The team is appreciated in this town and hopefully it will last. In other cities, teams do not even get a mention in their newspapers. I keep on hearing "wait until we get a stadium" from other people, but just like in baseball, stadiums don't keep interest alive, teams do.
Remember that TFC never would have been allowed into the league without the approval of the USSF president. And who is that? Sunil Gulati. And guess what. He's on the New England Revolution payroll. Nothing personal, Canada, but we don't want you in our league. It's that simple. Go start your own. You can argue all you want that you and your team are models. Nothing changes the fact that a new USSF administration could bounce you in a hearbeat.
"The fact is that without Toronto, the MLS is minor league. It is the only town where the team gets front page news and is a big deal. There may be a few idiots, that's the consequence when people actually show up to games."
This is not really true, Houston and DC have been front page news in their towns as well and neither has had trouble getting people to show up to games. Hell DC has a dedicated weather forcast in the Washington Post.
You guys (American fans leaving dumb comments) have no idea what you're talking about. You guys need to get some of your facts straight. TFC fanbase is very multicultural. You can find all kinds of people (regardless race, class or gender) rooting for the reds aka TFC.
As for article itself, you guys making this a big deal when it shouldn't be a big deal at all.
TFC = Terrible Football Club?
That is why we are currently third place in MLS, right?
Few things bore me as much as Canadian claims of multiculturalism. The fact is that the foreign-born population of the United States is greater than Canada's entire population. And you know what else? Who cares about your muliticulturalism. We want an American league with local flavor. Go start your own league if you can't stand hanging with us parochial Americans.
it's really sad to read all bickering back and forward. instead of reading the reaction of fans around the league, you see signs of jealosy and complete ignorance.
I am an American and I'm shocked by some comments regarding TFC. They are to be applauded and used as an example for the rest of the league.
Those "few bad apples" will be taken care off, the rest in Toronto is just perfect and we should follow through.
I hope some of these coments are pure TFC rivals expressing their hate.
Otherwise we need a facelift...
Being from Toronto, I couldn't care less about multiculturalism or the rest of canada, it does not interest me. All I care about is seeing high quality MLS soccer in this city with the best possible players.
Toronto can learn a lot from other MLS franchises and vice versa. The league is what it is and bashing franchises won't make it grow. It has the potential to be a great league
Hang on a second. Toronto's fans could be 20,250 Saint Joans of Arc. But nothing can change the fact that Toronto is another country. Our country, the United States of America, is huge. We shouldn't look elswhere for growth MLS should patiently grow within the United States. The binational model is an aberration. The few examples of it can not be applied to the United States. God bless you, Toronto fans. But while you guys boast of being such a model, an American city goes without. And now they're shoving Vancouver and Montreal down our throats. Fifa wants to hear from American fans, does it? Oh, it will.
You have to appreciate vd's honesty. But does that sort of Torontonian thinking serve the rest of Canada? I sometimes get the feeling that Toronto considers itself Canada only when it's convenient.
It may be in another country, but Toronto was good for the league in terms of the market size and overall exposure. Canada has nothing to do with it, even the ratings show the rest of the country could care less about the MLS. And as far as multiculturalism, 80% of the crowd is caucasian male so that has little relevance either.
To me, what does not make sense is having teams in Columbus or Kansas City, San Jose or possibly St Louis. Small markets or west coast cities have nothing to offer to the future of MLS. Watching MLS for years now, The heart of the league is in big markets on the east coast and the I think addition of Philadelphia was the best move they made this year. I think rather than looking at borders, we should be looking at strong markets.
Its really funny most of you people are attacking us in Toronto calling up racist etc, when 90% of your posts involve direct or indirect attacks on a country.
Its amazing how fast it has to become an us vs them thing.
And taking away from US cities? Man, fill yer fucking stadiums 1st. Prove you can make that bold/stupid of a statement. MLS is proving football is an uphill fight in most of the US. Past 4 cities up here, its the same. (Edmonton. Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal).
All I hear is DC fans, if you can only compare 1 cities fans vs a sophomore francise, I am sorry, thats just sad.
Love how we are all white drinking middle class people.. when I think 75% of my section isnt.. and not that Toronto has the largest Italian community outside of Italy.. cause Italy isnt known for liking soccer or anything...
Jesus man, you so few just fuel the fire and make so many look like jackasses... the exact same thing happening here.
Anyways, enjoy your anti-Canadian jabber, and complaining we made it in the league, cause it will be on deaf ears.. weère here to stay.
VD, I agree, Philly will be an awesome expansion. They prove they are great fans no matter what the sport.
Having been a -=GASP!!=- Canadian at a few Eagles games, they were awesome to me and are top class.. as long as yer not the opposing team lol.
I hear Portland is it? has some really good fans too.
I'm tired of people framing the debate in a way that dismisses those opposed to Canadian teams as racist. Please. What? We don't share your deracinating ideas so now we're racist?
Attention kevin, brian, and that twit fuk a canuck....Just read what EVERY MLS player says when asked who the best fans are and the toughest place to play away....EVERYONE says TFC! Sure there's a few idiots everywhere, but there's more fights at a single Yankees game than in a whole TFC season.
Who cares what the players say? They're too polite to point out that you Canucks regard TFC games as a forum for your aggressive expressions of nationalism and your Euro wannabeism. Do you see Rev or DC fans waving American flags at games? Go play Saskatoon and see how pumped you guys are. And if you are, fine. You'll be a perfect cornerstone for a Canadian league.
"Who cares what the players say? They're too polite to point out that you Canucks regard TFC games as a forum for your aggressive expressions of nationalism and your Euro wannabeism. Do you see Rev or DC fans waving American flags at games? Go play Saskatoon and see how pumped you guys are. And if you are, fine. You'll be a perfect cornerstone for a Canadian league."
Are you fuckin' retarded? I always see Americans waving their american flags when they play against TFC. Not only that, but they also chant "USA, USA, USA" as well. You inbreed fucks need a nice cup of STFU.
Well, looks like Chinvas has us beat. Time for you guys to go put out the fires with your tears down there I guess eh..
I'm a TFC season ticket holder and member of the biggest supporters' group-Red Patch Boys. Yes, I was at Columbus, and due to the fact there were 2400 of us and no toilets, we used common sense, and used a chainlink fence away from the party to avoid any offence. There was no wedding going on by the way.
TFC supporters are genereally passionate and knowledgable about football, but as with any crowd (hockey, baseball, NFL) a few can't hold their booze and the occasional incident occurs (yes there were sporadic incidents in Columbus). The idiot that ran onto the field last week vs the NY Fizzy drinks should be banned from BMO Field for life as should anyone throwing beer, coins, plastic bottles, flares onto the field.
Away fans are always made welcome at our tailgates- there has never been any trouble. Last year we hosted 60 Revs fans and had a great party with them and fostered friendships.
Anyway, rant over...let's all get along, people. Hopefully some of you will make it up to TO to experience the matchday experience at BMO Field.
Cheers!
I'm Toronto season ticket holder. First, I've seen games MLS games in New York and Chicago and games and various pro levels in England and Italy. I think it's good to worry about hooliganism in order to recognize the early signs of crowd violence. I have to say the TFC fans currently don't act anything like hooligans I've seen. Potential hooligans? Who knows? But can we please encourage the enthusiasm for as long as we can? I agree with comments on here that fan support throughout the MLS is somewhat tenuous and we need to build the core support throughout the league.
Second, some comments turned towards the question of having a Canadian team in an American league. I have to admit that as a Canadian this bugged me from the day TFC won the expansion franchise. I would love for Canada to have a fully professional league (we did have a semi-pro league in different forms for years) to produce teams to go head-to-head with MLS and other teams. More kids play soccer than hockey in Canada. We have 33 million people and much smaller countries (Denmark, Sweden, Scotland etc) support pro leagues. The reality though is that truly pro soccer is just starting out in Canada. FIFA recognized this when they approved expansion in Toronto. Perhaps one day soon teams in Montreal and Vancouver will be joined by teams in 8-10 other Canadian cities and we form a thriving Canadian league. In the mean time, the MLS is the best option.
Why should MLS support a team in Toronto? Because greater Toronto is the fifth largest city in North America. Because the USSF and the CSA have similar challenges: a limited number of markets that will support and develop players. Right now the North American league model of the MLS and USL helps both countries. Because all those beer-swilling TFC supporters are giving the money that will develop Edu and Wynne and future US stars just as the Dynamo builds DeRo's career, etc.
I guess I just really don't fully understand the mentality of the Americans posting here. Can someone clarify how MLS is in any way different than MLB? Or the NHL? What is the issue with having a Canadian team, especially one that garners additional interest in the league at a major international city? Why would you fight to give a city like St Louis a team with a population of 300k but not one with a population of 5million+ ? Those truly interested in seeing the MLS grow would see Toronto as the tip of the sword in garnering additional fans and exposure.
I understand that many Canadian fans harbor a sense of european identity and a lot of that can be attributed to our lack of Canadian identity internationally and internally (We simply do not have an equivelant to American Pride), but what exactly is the problem with us taking pride in our heritage and working to help emulate our peers abroad?
The vast majority of you, if given a chance, would have a fantastic time at a TFC game and in no way would feel threatened or scared. There are ample places to eat and drink (and urinate), and while it desperately needs additional ATMs, the entire layout is quick and easy.
Please get off your high horses; we're not stabbing each other, or becoming a detrement to the league in any way. The inclusion of additional Canadian teams will only strengthen the league as a whole and you could learn just as much from us and we could from you.
new england has had a team and 2 suppoters clubs (midnite ridres and rev army since 1996.) the two are seporate but very much in it for the same reason. early on we were treated terribly by stadium security. with contempt and insults, mostly. most of those sub-human , nfl meatheads are gone now. but that line from green st hooligans is true: the fancier the football, the @#$%ier the supporters club. as are revs have become one of the leagues best on field products, most of the rev army- once known for there funny songs chants, and easily providing 80% of the atmosphere- are gone now. the mid-nite riders has grown since the army stopped really showing up in big numbers like they used to. but i for one miss having all those mo hawks, blow up dolls, and clever insults in the fort. and as far as hooliganism ? theres a time and a place for enery thing. hooligans in the u.s should adopt the nearest mls team and make it thier own