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As you know we at MLSR do not shy away from any MLS related subject and so when a number of troubling incidents happened all within the space of a couple weeks this season we reported on them. While some prefer to pretend that a serious issue does not exist we feel our concerns are valid.
Continuing this investigation, a good friend of this site, Kartik Krishnaiyer sat down with noted author and hooliganism expertDougie Brimson during recording the most recent episode of the most excellent American Soccer Show to talk about the question of whether there is a hooligan problem forming in MLS. His focus was on recent incidents in Toronto, Columbus and Houston.
We have included audio of that interview which is an excerpt of the show here:
click to play
Kartik also has crafted a very good post over on the American Soccer Spot blog, on the very same subject. We recommend that you go there and read it.
Here is the intro:MLS has now for years struggled to bring passion to is stadiums. American pro sports are known the world over for having casual, somewhat disinterested supporters based on European or Latin American standards. For MLS’ first decade of existence, these types of fans seemed to be the majority in MLS stadiums, and thus the league was seen as an ugly stepchild of football by true fans of the game. The quality of play while poor by any objective standard wasn’t as poor as many of the European oriented fans claimed: in fact by 2000, MLS having adopted international timing rules resembled a non low tier European league with some bright stars. Yet those ethnic fans and others of the European ilk who enjoy football still wouldn’t give MLS a fair opportunity.
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Thursday, May 15, 2008
AUDIO: Has Hooliganism Kicked Off In MLS?
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22 comments:
With all due respect to Dougie Brimson, he has a book to pimp.
Is fan violence a problem? Yes, there can be no question.
But soccer fans do not make a large portion of the American reading market. So this is a great way for him to stir the pot and rack up some more royalties.
"Hooliganism" as it exists in Europe and Latin America can't be replicated exactly here - travel distances and mode of transport are an important reason why, and hooligans tend to prefer to occupy not just designated football spaces but also neutral spaces - city centers etc - to publicly show their identity. Not as satisfying when you're car pooling. What we're likely to see are different forms of fan conflict, which clubs and cops may or may not choose to step in to control. Clubs and MLS shouldn't let this to get out of hand - driving away a lot of paying customers and increasing security costs as a result.
Look some of us felt when TFC was brought into the league that a possibility of this existed. Call us racist pro American whatever. The truth is we have no problem with fans of different ethnic groups in this country because we all adhere to a certain cultural standard at sporting events. Sure incidents happen here and there but nothing consistent as had been depicted on this website for the past few weeks. Canadians and British ex-pats have a different value system when it comes to attending matches.
MLS is getting what it deserves. Making a cash grab and allowing this element into stadiums means articles like this will soon become more and more frequent.
How much money is Dougie funneling to you all so you can try and make him relevant?
"Look some of us felt when TFC was brought into the league that a possibility of this existed. Call us racist pro American whatever. The truth is we have no problem with fans of different ethnic groups in this country because we all adhere to a certain cultural standard at sporting events. Sure incidents happen here and there but nothing consistent as had been depicted on this website for the past few weeks. Canadians and British ex-pats have a different value system when it comes to attending matches.
MLS is getting what it deserves. Making a cash grab and allowing this element into stadiums means articles like this will soon become more and more frequent."
You got to be kidding me? Few incidents? Fightings have been happening even before TFC were in the league.
Examples, DC United and RBNY fights, L.A - Chivas USA fighting in the parkings lot in the past.
Now with more teams, we will except to have more incidents in MLS.
Funny thing about this article is that worse incidents weren't even committed by TFC fans at all. But once again, MLS rumors proves to be a great website for TFC haters.
As for article itself, what a joke!
Do you guys even know what "hooliganism" even means? I bet you any money that more "hooliganism" takes place in NFL than MLS.
I bet you any money that more "hooliganism" takes place in NFL than MLS
Your right. The problem is we are dealing with a sports media in the US dominated by people who are naturally hostile to the game. They want MLS to fold up and then they can write columns saying "we told you so, the foreign game won't work in America."
They don't give a damn about violence and fighting at NFL or College Football games. That to them is good American fighting.
So my point in writing this story was to point out that if we as fans don't step up and stop this nonsense our league which has made so much progress will suddenly be on the defensive against much more powerful media critics than myself or the authors of this site. Do we want to put ourselves in that position or can we contain this stuff before we have no influence over it any longer?
Garber's method of encouraging passion was to appeal to the angst of Hispanics and Canadians. It was cynical, ill-advised and aberrant. I'm a passionate follower of the sport. But my passion is quite American,i.e.,restrained, casual, not obsessive. The organized supporters groups either through monotony or their contrived intensity are turning people off.
Well put Kartik, I like having rivalries in the league. I support Columbus, so I'm supposed to hate TFC right? Only for 90 minutes. It's not worth someone getting hurt or arrested because they see someone wearing a different colored shirt.
There is a line that once it's crossed it's hard to go back, especially with no media helping the leauge.
I love this game, but I will watch games at home if hooliganism every becomes widespread at the stadium.
Some opposing supporters will have a field day with that statement. While they go home to an empty apartment, and rant on bigsoccer about the game, I get to go home to my wife, go to work at a great company, and coach young players at the local H.S. -why risk all that because a rival supporter wants to fight.
A good experience though was at DC. I rode the Metro with my wife to and from the game in my Crew gear. After the game, I heard some rumblings and an "F*** you" from a Barra Brava guy, but that was it.
I like the streamers, I like the profane chants, I like the bantering back and forth during the match. But leave it on the field.
If two players can shake hands and forget about the fouls and sh*t that happened during the match, shouldn't supporters?
Just one man's thoughts.
"A very good post over at the American Soccer Blog" . A very good waste of time is more like it.
Essentially The thesis of this piece is that some American journlists hate soccer and will use alleged "hooligan" acts to bash the game ans destroy MLS.
Give me a break! Haters will always be haters. They already have all the excuses they need to hate Soccer and I for one do not need the validation of Jime Rome or any other noted hater out there in the press in order to justify my passion for soccer and the love for my team.
Furthermore, each and every "TFC Fan incident" that this article, and that MLS-Rumors for that matter, has based these "hooliganism" reports on are baseless, factless and just plain wrong. The bit about the Columbus Police car being surrounded by TFC fans neglected to mention that this was done voluntarily by TFC supporters who pushed the stuck car out of the mud. The church was closed (it was a Saturday) and The Crew in their infinite wisdom did not supply portajohns for 2500 people. The area was a mess because no garbage cans were provided.
So not only is the underlying argument faulty in and of itself, but the "evidence" used to back it up is even more faulty.
Pretty shameless. I hope you guys get a nice cut of royalties from Brimson as that appears to be the intent in the first place.
RSL and COLORADO RAPIDS are going at it tonight. This rivalry is a good one. Expect a hostile environment.
the guy who runs this site has NO idea what hooligans are. He thinks there soccer fans, lol, there gangs nimrod, like the bloods and crips. they just use a soccer team. so no, there is no holligans in MLS. SO STOP POSTING ON IT YOUY UN EDUCATED BASTARD.
"RSL and COLORADO RAPIDS are going at it tonight. This rivalry is a good one. Expect a hostile environment."
Good, I hope those fake salt lakers come to the game. I like fighting, its fun.
Bring it!
hooligan - A tough and aggressive or violent youth.
When I saw the title of the article I thought sensationalism.
I know Kartik from the American Soccer show and he is very much on the money typically so I was disappointed.
However despite a very alarmist and ill advised title the premise of the article was quite good.
The article after a reading is actually very balanced. Toronto FC has had incidents and acting as if nothing has happened avoids the point. The further genius of the blog lies in trying to find a solution and commending the league for growing to this point.
I'm not sure the league is going to collapse due to hooliganism as is implied by the article but do we really want to find out?
just wondering, why do u guys use a photo of NE Revs fans? we NE fans have a reputation of being some of the nicest fans in the MLS.
Do you have permission from CSRN to use that clip?
What sounds like "hooliganism" to Brimson and others is actually pretty normal for most North American sporting events - they simply don't want to admit it, however.
Apparently, riding a double-decker bus to a match is hooligan (http://csrnusa.com/ussoccerspot/?p=751).
Apparently, peeing on a fence in Columbus is hooligan.
Apparently, tailgating is hooligan.
I think Doug should do us all a favour and check out a local university match or NFL/NBA/NHL rivalry game. I'm sure he'll find a lot of "hooliganism" at those events as well
If you're going to screencap one of my videos and post the image, the least you could do is cite your source...
What a load of garbage. Brimson is neither provocative or interesting, and it's a shame you give him a soapbox to pimp out his new 'book'.
Mr. Brimson is a snake-oil salesman who found the right group of suckers (this site) to use as his soap box.
There is no hooliganism in MLS; just your ranting and ravings of a problem that doesn't exist.
Maybe Dougie should worry about the continued Hooliganism in his own country before he comes over here and tells us how to avoid/fix it.
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